Game Thread: vs Liberty

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BigNick
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by BigNick » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:30 am

Excellent win-but it was against a weak team. They still put-up 400 yards on our defense. Hawaii has an excellent passing attack that scored 50+ points on Navy
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losttribe
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by losttribe » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:00 am

Nick, admittedly it was not against strong opponents but they did average 449 yards a game offense last year. Liberty has a lot of offensive weapons. I think they will put up yards against a lot of teams this year.
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RABBLE
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by RABBLE » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:12 pm

Liberty may have been a weak team on DEFENSE. But on OFFENSE, they were very good especially with Calvert as the quarterback and a couple guys who could catch the ball in tight situations.
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by bty612006 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:28 pm

WP1994 wrote: " Exactly how did you determine how many staff and faculty attended the game?

With increased prices for tickets and parking, across the board, I’m not sure why anyone should be surprised at the lower attendance. The oppononent didn’t help either."


That's easy. I used my own experience from when I was on S&F. For myself, and my classmates, it was just accepted without even being asked that everyone would be at the game. Why? Because Army was playing! As ex-Cadets, as Grads, as Instructors, as Tacs, that was where we felt we had a responsibility to be and where for the same reasons we wanted to be. We even went to practices, even when the weather was bad. Weather might impede the wives attending, but the Staff & Faculty Officers and even Civilian Corps? (My wife, while I was in VN, took my son over the mountain from Stewart to be in the Peanut Gallery and stood among my classmates during a pouring rainstorm. It earned her a few points.)

But, to answer your question: The first part of the estimate was my expectation that every member of the Staff and Faculty should be, and would want to be, at the game. Second, we took up the entire upper deck. You could have put everyone in the stadium--minus the Corps now sitting over in the Visitors seats--in that upper deck area and have many, many seats left over plus the rest of the stadium. Thus, my guesstimate that many of the Staff and Faculty didn't attend. My expectation, shared by almost everyone of my classmates, may no longer be the norm held by Grads, as one poster noted multiple excuses--it was cold and dreary, the opponent was Liberty, and the ticket prices were high.

My original point was that such low attendance was a shock! The attendance certainly indicated that we are not drawing the civilian populations around West Point to support Army football financially as in previous years. But in commenting, I noted that the low attendance also indicated a lower level of support by the Staff and Faculty. I was surprised at the reaction and excuses given in reply to my passing comment. I would hope I'm incorrect in my assumption, but it seems to imply that there are acceptable excuses--bad weather, the opponent, etc.--for the Staff and Faculty to be absent from a game rather than their presence being a voluntary and a desired sense of duty and responsibility.
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wp1994
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by wp1994 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:33 pm

bty612006 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:28 pm
WP1994 wrote: " Exactly how did you determine how many staff and faculty attended the game?

With increased prices for tickets and parking, across the board, I’m not sure why anyone should be surprised at the lower attendance. The oppononent didn’t help either."


I would hope I'm incorrect in my assumption, but it seems to imply that there are acceptable excuses--bad weather, the opponent, etc.--for the Staff and Faculty to be absent from a game rather than their presence being a voluntary and a desired sense of duty and responsibility.
Yes sir, you are incorrect in your assumption. I’d estimate that probably 40-45% of military faculty members attend most games. Among the civilian faculty (now about 30% of the overall faculty, much different than in your era), I’d say it’s about 10-15% attendance.

Personally, I generally attend one or two home football games per year, and the Navy game. That’s a pretty sizable chunk of change for a family of four. Beyond football, we have season tickets for one winter sport and one spring sport, plus we attend a handful of other games requiring us to buy tickets. Many of us also serve as Officer Reps and/or Officers in Charge for teams and clubs. I would estimate I put in an average of about ten hours a week out of season and easily two or three times that in season.

You may complain about our lack of dedication, our lack of duty, etc., and that’s your right; I will make no effort to convince you differently. You will most likely continue to believe what you want to believe. If you’d like to get a more current view of life on the staff and faculty, send me a message offline, and I’ll gladly fill you in.

Beat ‘em!
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by bty612006 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:10 pm

WP1994, I am not complaining about the lack of....just plain shocked that the 12th man spirit has dissipated so much
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RABBLE
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by RABBLE » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:59 pm

Why they even bother to put an attendance in with the box score is useless. I know the amount of fans who bought tickets beforehand is the figure they use and not the actual amount of fans that show up on game day. It was over 25,000 fans in attendance that was given but take away the Corps, I would be surprised if the actual attendance that showed up was 15,000.

So why publish the tickets sold beforehand?
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by LoneStarPhan » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:38 am

I can add that when I arrived at West Point to join the faculty more than 40 years ago, it was "expected" that we would buy the two staff and faculty rate season tickets. Football on Saturday was just what you did, at least after teaching Saturday morning. Yes, football is not the only thing that has changed at West Point. At least two large sections in the upper deck and some sections in the lower deck were staff and faculty sections. Games against teams like Colgate, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Lehigh, etc. drew a good crowd. I think almost every game had 30K to 35K attending, and good opponents sold out the stadium. A membership in the A club was required to buy the staff and faculty tickets, but the cost of the A club and the two tickets did not seem excessive for an O3 with family of five. In fact, we bought two additional tickets at a higher price plus three peanut gallery tickets each season during our initial tour at West Point. I also continued to renew the A club membership after leaving the faculty even though I did not anticipate a return tour to West Point at that time. I also went to the quarterback luncheons at the club just about every week.

I also attended numerous other sporting events during the year, including basketball at the Field House, hockey at Smith Rink, and lacrosse and rugby outdoors. I tried to see as many of the cadets I was teaching who were playing Corps squad or club sports, as I could.

My guess is that support from the staff and faculty is not as strong now, but I really don't know.
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RABBLE
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Re: Game Thread: vs Liberty

Post by RABBLE » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:19 pm

I think part of the problem is that there are so many pro teams vying for the fans dollars these days more so in years past. The dollar can only go so far.
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