Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

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wpgrad
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Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by wpgrad » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:36 pm

If I have reviewed both of the games correctly, this is the 2nd game in a row in which we have had no cut blocks of the new rule. We did have a cut block today, but it was the old rule in which one of our lineman was engaged and then the other lineman cut him.

Looks like, as expected, our coaching staff has made adjustments.

I couldn't be happier with this team right now. Before the season I thought we would start 2-3, and then after the duke game and liberty's first win, I was very concerned we would start 1-4. Now...i think we'll be favored in each game the rest of the year up to Navy barring injury.

Our coaching staff, particularly bateman, has to be amongst the best in the country.
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In your zeal to defend your previous, ridiculous "bully" accusation...

Post by ARMORMAN » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:26 pm

you have totally missed the point, and frankly, you're getting really, really boring.

Here's the deal, pay attention now: Cut blocks enabled us to turn a 4 or 5 yard gain into 14 or 15, because our guys were able to put their backers and secondary ON THE GROUND, savvy? Now we can't do that. Now we have to either face up block from 10 to 2 or risk a penalty. It's a lot tougher to put a guy on the ground when you can't cut his legs, especially if you are a lot smaller. So now they have fewer defenders ON THE GROUND. It ain't about "bullying", to use your ridiculous accusation. It's about putting secondary defenders ON THE GROUND. Does any of this make sense?? Do you get it??

If not, listen to our Head Coach talk about it. Or listen to our Offensive Coordinator, or Paul Johnson. Or roll back the tape you missed against Liberty or Hawaii, when we had no fewer than 3 runs of 40 yards or more called back. Or hell, listen to the color commentator during the Buffalo game explain the negative affects of the new cut blocking rule on an option offense. Everyone's on the same page, which is a different page from you.

OF COURSE we adjusted, Captain Obvious. Our staff ain't stupid. But you have completely missed the reason that ALL option teams are being hurt by the new rule. So here it is in short form: IT MEANS LESS DEFENDERS ON THE GROUND IN THE SECOND LEVEL. So we gain 4 instead of 14 or more. Is that simple enough??? If you still have doubts, or if your feelings are hurt again, why don't you ask a real, live football player. We actually have a few right here, on this forum....

Now, I'm sure you'll have some cute retort, but I'm done with you. You ain't worth any more time.

Out.
Last edited by ARMORMAN on Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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keco616
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by keco616 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:35 pm

wpgrad wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:36 pm
If I have reviewed both of the games correctly, this is the 2nd game in a row in which we have had no cut blocks of the new rule. We did have a cut block today, but it was the old rule in which one of our lineman was engaged and then the other lineman cut him.

Looks like, as expected, our coaching staff has made adjustments.

I couldn't be happier with this team right now. Before the season I thought we would start 2-3, and then after the duke game and liberty's first win, I was very concerned we would start 1-4. Now...i think we'll be favored in each game the rest of the year up to Navy barring injury.

Our coaching staff, particularly bateman, has to be amongst the best in the country.

Not a new versus old rule there. You are referencing the chop-block penalty, which has nothing to do with a cut block ruling.
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wpgrad
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Re: In your zeal to defend your previous, ridiculous "bully" accusation...

Post by wpgrad » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:41 pm

ARMORMAN wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:26 pm
you have totally missed the point, and frankly, you're getting really, really boring.

Here's the deal, pay attention now: Cut blocks enabled us to turn a 4 or 5 yard gain into 14 or 15, because our guys were able to put their backers and secondary ON THE GROUND, savvy? Now we can't do that. Now we have to either face up block from 10 to 2 or risk a penalty. It's a lot tougher to put a guy on the ground when you can't cut his legs, especially if you are a lot smaller. So now they have fewer defenders ON THE GROUND. It ain't about "bullying", to use your ridiculous accusation. It's about putting secondary defenders ON THE GROUND. Does any of this make sense?? Do you get it??

If not, listen to our Head Coach talk about it. Or listen to our Offensive Coordinator, or Paul Johnson. Or roll back the tape you missed against Liberty or Hawaii, when we had no fewer than 3 runs of 40 yards or more called back. Or hell, listen to the color commentator during the Buffalo game explain the negative affects of the new cut blocking rule on an option offense. Everyone's on the same page, which is a different page from you.

OF COURSE we adjusted, Captain Obvious. Our staff ain't stupid. But you have completely missed the reason that ALL option teams are being hurt by the new rule. So here it is in short form: IT MEANS LESS DEFENDERS ON THE GROUND IN THE SECOND LEVEL. So we gain 4 instead of 14 or more. Is that simple enough??? If you still have doubts, or if your feelings are hurt again, why don't you ask a real, live football player. We actually have a few right here, on this forum....

Now, I'm sure you'll have some cute retort, but I'm done with you. You ain't worth any more time.

Out.
You said you were done with me on my last post where you totally misinterpreted my point about the word bullying. Too much fox news for you. By the way, Aren't you the same guy who wrote this 10 paragraph speech on how smart we were to hire Rich Ellerson? I seem to remember that.

If you plan to ignore me, please do so. But that means no more replying.

And...how is a team "Hurt" buy a new rule if the penalty is never called against them? How is a team that just beat 4-0 buffalo by 4 TDs and took oklahoma to Overtime demonstrating they are "hurt."
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by LoneStarPhan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:41 pm

I certainly do not want to become involved in any dispute between posters.

The point is that yes, the Army players can learn to not make blocks that are now illegal and they certainly are being coached to avoid those penalties. Yes, the number of penalties will go down and that helps the team.

However, by not being able to make the blocks that in the past were very effective and often opened up big gains, the option teams are hurt. I am sure the coaches will work on trying to have legal blocks but there is no doubt that it will be harder and less effective than the previous blocking technique we used. Since only a few teams (option teams) used this blocking technique, most schools don't really care much about the rule change. For teams such as Army, the rule chance does make a significant difference even after they have adjusted and no longer are getting penalties for the now illegal blocks. Sure, they no longer are getting penalty yards against them but that is because they have lost what in the past was a blocking technique that was extremely valuable to their offense.

Regardless, the rule is what it is and Army will work to do the best they can to work with the rule. They really have no choice.
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by wpgrad » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:07 pm

LoneStarPhan wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:41 pm
I certainly do not want to become involved in any dispute between posters.

The point is that yes, the Army players can learn to not make blocks that are now illegal and they certainly are being coached to avoid those penalties. Yes, the number of penalties will go down and that helps the team.

However, by not being able to make the blocks that in the past were very effective and often opened up big gains, the option teams are hurt. I am sure the coaches will work on trying to have legal blocks but there is no doubt that it will be harder and less effective than the previous blocking technique we used. Since only a few teams (option teams) used this blocking technique, most schools don't really care much about the rule change. For teams such as Army, the rule chance does make a significant difference even after they have adjusted and no longer are getting penalties for the now illegal blocks. Sure, they no longer are getting penalty yards against them but that is because they have lost what in the past was a blocking technique that was extremely valuable to their offense.

Regardless, the rule is what it is and Army will work to do the best they can to work with the rule. They really have no choice.
I agree with your entire post. I guess my opinion is that while the new rule does impact options teams, in the long run, they will adjust (as we have seen the last 2 weeks) and its really not that big of a deal.
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by gabn92 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:00 am

FWIW, I didn't ready wpgrad's post quite the same as Armorman...

I think it's a fair point overall on this post---I am also very glad to see the trend in the right direction this season of reducing those penalties. I couldn't watch the game this weekend, but noticed on the ESPN feed a 15 yard penalty in the 3rd quarter against the offense and assumed that they'd been called for the illegal block. Set up a 2nd and 16 I think...which Hopkins led them to convert and keep the drive going thankfully. Was that the only illegal block penalty on the O this week?

The larger issue is the ridiculous nature of this penalty. I think we probably all agree on this board that it shouldn't have been installed, it hurts TO offenses overall, and that we hope they will review the rule and eliminate it next year. At a minimum, I think 15 yards is much too stiff...if the penalty stays, it should be reduced to 5 yards or 10 at most.
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by Usma80 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:53 am

Wpgrad,

It is that big a deal. You’re wrong and Armorman is right in this sense: it severely limits what was previously our big yardage quick-strike plays. My sense is we had more of them in the past than this year. My sense is also that we have had more plays per drive this year because of it, which is good because it burns clock, but it decreases margin for error because we have to execute perfectly more often. The reason you think it’s not a big deal is probably because Hopkins’ passing ability is adding longer yardage quick-strike plays that we didn’t have before; and is allowing us to salvage those many-play drives when we don’t execute and are in 3rd and long.
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by ClassVI » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:21 am

Usma80 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:53 am
The reason you think it’s not a big deal is probably because Hopkins’ passing ability is adding longer yardage quick-strike plays that we didn’t have before; and is allowing us to salvage those many-play drives when we don’t execute and are in 3rd and long.
USMA80, your quote above is absolutely correct. If this new rule was implemented last year, we likely would have had less success with Bradshaw under center.

The announcers yesterday took footage from the 4th quarter of the Oklahoma game showing two Army players attempting to block larger OU defenders toe-to-toe. The announcers said something along the lines of “Army last year would have made these cut-blocks, but with the new rule they can’t do it anymore.” The result: they couldn’t make the blocks, and OU stopped our final game-winning drive.
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Re: Two weeks in a row--no cut blocks (of the new kind)

Post by ClassVI » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:59 am

On another note, I believe that it is not a coincidence the rule changed the year after Army won 10 games.
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