Check this out.....

Discussing Army Black Knights football, basketball and more. United States Military Academy sports forum. West Point athletics discussion board.
User avatar
ARMORMAN
New Recruit
Posts: 149
Joined: December 2016
x 2
x 37
Contact:

Check this out.....

Post by ARMORMAN » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:15 pm

https://gazette.com/sports/david-ramsey ... 86d84.html


I guess I don't mind Hammond's comment that much. He's 1/2 the reason this game ended up close, and he'll probably be the starter next year. So go ahead, put the burden on your back. But now you gotta deliver hotshot....
Fejedelem, on the other hand, needs an attitude check. That was a punk comment, and I hate to say it, but it's sadly typical of the trash talking that their players have demonstrated for many years....that's why they're hated.

Oh, btw, the other 1/2 reason that this game was close:
Brett Davis.

Sorry, but this is 3 weeks in a row. After Miami, he admitted being "too conservative"....
But the same pattern emerged at EMU, and kept that game closer than it should be.
And today?.....

Today, a blind man could predict fb dive on 1st down, especially in the second half. I know that is our "bread and butter", but you don't keep going to it IRRESPECTIVE OF THE (LACK OF) RESULTS. I'm not a stat guy, but I'm guessing that we ran our fb on first down in the second half on almost every series. That would have been fine had we moved the chains and sustained drives. But instead, we found ourselves over and over in 2d and 9, then 3d and 7. Puts huge pressure on defense, especially when your punter has a brain fart. Way too many 3 and outs when a modest drive would have put this game away early.

Look, we have TONS of weapons this year. Hopkins is the best pure passer in decades, period. It's not even much of a gamble to throw a quick out with him, especially with receivers who have great hands! Walker has afterburners in his ass, but where was he in the play-calling today? We ran 1 reverse (with a SB not named Walker). Where were out midline options? How many times did we pitch? I know Hopkins was dinged up, but there was just NO room for Woolfolk in the second half. Yet, we kept feeding him, and kept going nowhere on that play. 3 and out. 3 and out.

BUT
We won.
We beat the jerks from Colo Springs.
We keep the CIC.

I gotta keep saying those things over and over, in order to keep it all in perspective. It was tremendous to win. But I'm worried going forward. Very worried that we are suddenly SO predictable, SO unimaginative, SO unable to adjust to defenses stacking the box......that we can put 3 of the next 4 games in jeopardy. This must not happen.

We have weapons.
Use 'em!!!

Said my peace.
We won.
Out.
6 x

Usma80
New Recruit
Posts: 124
Joined: December 2016
x 9
x 9
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by Usma80 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:42 pm

+ 1 Armorman ... Davis is some combination of stubborn and unaware. But it’s reached critical mass now, with 3 games in a row where the 2nd halves are carbon copies of each other. We’ll pay the price at some point, hopefully not with Navy or the bowl game.
1 x

wpgrad
New Recruit
Posts: 497
Joined: December 2016
x 8
x 55
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by wpgrad » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:52 pm

A Bunch of smack talk from a 3-6 team. F them. They probably should worry about their coaches getting fired. Army 2019 doesnt care about beating air force. Army 2019 cares about beating Michigan
1 x

prairie
New Recruit
Posts: 147
Joined: December 2016
x 31
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by prairie » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:10 am

ARMORMAN wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:15 pm
It was tremendous to win. But I'm worried going forward. Very worried that we are suddenly SO predictable, SO unimaginative, SO unable to adjust to defenses stacking the box......that we can put 3 of the next 4 games in jeopardy. This must not happen.

We have weapons.
Use 'em!!!
To a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail. Part of the reason why FB's are being relied on so much is that we have so many of them that are good. The first 3 FB's on the depth chart are graduating next year. Slomka, McCoy, and others may step up but I don't think we'll have near the FB roster that we have now. It may actually make Davis open up the playbook more next season. But I think the rest of this season, we'll see Davis use the FB's while he still has them.
0 x

Usma80
New Recruit
Posts: 124
Joined: December 2016
x 9
x 9
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by Usma80 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:55 am

prairie wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:10 am

To a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail. Part of the reason why FB's are being relied on so much is that we have so many of them that are good. The first 3 FB's on the depth chart are graduating next year. Slomka, McCoy, and others may step up but I don't think we'll have near the FB roster that we have now. It may actually make Davis open up the playbook more next season. But I think the rest of this season, we'll see Davis use the FB's while he still has them.
Not sure if you’re excusing his decision making or saying he’s not very smart with your “man with a hammer” comment. If you’re not opening the playbook just because you have 5 good fullbacks, even when the FB dive is repeatedly failing because the other team has adjusted to your tendencies, then you are not very smart at all. Once the game starts his job is to do what it takes to win, regardless of his pregame depth chart and whatever scheme he thought would work last week in prep. This is not second-guessing Davis - he’s predictable enough to first-guess live during the game; and he’s turning mid-game dominating performances into nail biters.
0 x


User avatar
PrideandDream
New Recruit
Posts: 263
Joined: December 2016
x 5
x 30
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by PrideandDream » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:06 am

Culture problem at USAFA. Always has been.

They think they are ENTITLED to win. That we owe them something. They've never treated West Point or Army Football with any respect. Well we are now beginning to earn it.

No Poise.
No Class.
No Win.
No CIC


They'll have the off season to figure out next year. We have three more games to play and likely a bowl. At this rate a bowl is likely out of their future too.

PD
0 x

prairie
New Recruit
Posts: 147
Joined: December 2016
x 31
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by prairie » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:54 am

Usma80 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:55 am

Not sure if you’re excusing his decision making or saying he’s not very smart with your “man with a hammer” comment. If you’re not opening the playbook just because you have 5 good fullbacks, even when the FB dive is repeatedly failing because the other team has adjusted to your tendencies, then you are not very smart at all. Once the game starts his job is to do what it takes to win, regardless of his pregame depth chart and whatever scheme he thought would work last week in prep. This is not second-guessing Davis - he’s predictable enough to first-guess live during the game; and he’s turning mid-game dominating performances into nail biters.
I think Davis is pretty smart. He fundamentally believes that he has the best FB's in the country and he's going to use them.

What is obvious to me is that the Army offensive line is pretty thin. They don't get rotated out as much as the opposing defense does (At Oklahoma, the entire O-line played 87 of 87 snaps.) Whether it is a dive or pitch or a pass, blocking will get progressively worse as the game goes on. When a FB dive doesn't work, you get 2 yards. When a block is missed on a pitch or a pass play, you lose 6 or 7 yards.

So i think Davis feels that using his hammers is the best choice. Opening up the playbook in the second half would likely result in a lot of negative plays. If anything, these plays should be run in the first half. But then again, Davis wants to use his hammers. I can't really blame him. I would do the same thing.

When I see our FB's getting stuffed in the 2nd half, it's because the line push is not there. If that was a pass play, it could've been a sack. Or a TFL on a pitch play or even worse a fumble because a defender is in the backfield.

So, yeah, I guess I understand why Davis keeps using his FB's.
0 x

losttribe
New Recruit
Posts: 122
Joined: December 2016
x 2
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by losttribe » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:55 am

I think the theory has been the time of posession edge will make the FB dive even more effective as the defense wears down. It worked better early in the season when there were 4 FB's rotating and the pitch kept the LB's from overcommitting. Learning to run the offense with a lead, be conservative but not totally predictable: that's Coach Davis' next step.
0 x

prairie
New Recruit
Posts: 147
Joined: December 2016
x 31
Contact:

Re: Check this out.....

Post by prairie » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:20 am

losttribe wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:55 am
I think the theory has been the time of posession edge will make the FB dive even more effective as the defense wears down.
Yes, this is traditionally the advantage of a TO offense. These days, defenses get rotated out significantly so the advantage is sometimes lost. Two or three defenders may play every or almost every snap but most will get some rest during a drive. Every single Army offensive linemen played every single snap of the 87 offensive plays in the Oklahoma game. I don’t have the stats for the OK defense but there were frequent rotations throughout the game.

The offensive line in a TO offense is critical. It is basically a violent choreography and precision is very important. The line has to be precise in absolute terms AND in relation with others in the line. It is more difficult to rotate out a single player. That’s when you get false starts and missed assignments and holding calls. But short of switching out the entire line, I don’t really see a solution.

I love these 14 play drives in the early part of the game as any other Army fan. The price is that relative to the defense, our O-line is wearing down at a faster rate on these early drives. I think that’s why we see the drop-off in the third quarter.
0 x

User avatar
ARMORMAN
New Recruit
Posts: 149
Joined: December 2016
x 2
x 37
Contact:

We won. The CIC stays.

Post by ARMORMAN » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:55 am

That was my first thought this morning.
We won.

But I'm still of the same mindset.

I'm not ecstatic because we just haven't put the last few games away. We don't stomp on their necks! Instead, we hang on by our fingernails and make it ridiculous in the end. As gabn92 and usma80 have posted, the odds are getting greater that this dangerous tactic will catch up to us....

I get your point prairie; and you may even be inside Davis' mind. Pass plays, pitches, reverses.....they ORDINARILY carry some added risk. Interceptions, incompletions, fumbles, negative plays are all possible. But I don't feel that much of a risk with our guys. Hopkins can flat-out spin it. He's crazy accurate. Temple last year, as we all now know, was not a fluke. That kid can put it where only our guys can catch it. He's just a gem, but we're not capitalizing on him. Same-same with pitches. Hopkins flips a perfectly led, perfectly timed, easy-to-catch pitch every time - and guys like Walker and Asberry have incredible hands. They just don't drop the ball. I could go on, but my point is that the ORDINARY risk that comes with anything other than a fb dive is hugely reduced by the talent level we have. A midline option or a quick out or a counter-option with Hopkins at the helm is just not that much of a risk. The kid is super ball-possession conscience. And even if it's only a small gain, it's no worse than 2 yds with another fb dive. Fact it, it helps to OPEN the middle lane for Woolfolk.

We won.

I keep repeating it.

That's also why I'm trying to be more polite than my normal tanker self. We won. As long as we win, right?....That's the goal, right??

But that's where I'm going with all this. I want to KEEP winning, and I want to win against stiffer competition. I want to squash the squids, and beat a top 20 team in a good bowl. Next year, I want Michigan to be the statement win we almost had in Norman....

But I don't see that with this take-no-chances, predictable, unimaginative, low-reward, here-we-come again play-calling. Nope. Don't see it. Not a chance. Bateman and that crew of heroes just cannot stem the tide time after time if we keep up this 3 and out, no-risk, punt, second-half play-calling.

We have weapons! These guys are special. I'm not advocating double-reverse deep post passes, for crissake. Here's what I AM advocating: If we are calling ourselves an OPTION offense, then play the part! If you absolutely insist on feeding Woolfolk, then stop the straight hand off. Make it the first move in a midline option. Have Kelvin pull it now and then and follow through the tackle. Bradshaw made a career out of that move. And then trust Hopkins to pitch it when they close that off. Right now, sorry, but we are NOT an option offense. We run set plays with mostly fb handoffs, AND IT DON'T MATTTER HOW THE D LINES UP OR HOW THEY REACT. That is not taking advantage of an "Option" attack. The beauty of an option is that the QB decides to keep or pitch based on what he sees. Again, I understand that this is higher risk, but that's mostly true of a poorer-coached team or lower-disciplined athletes. Ellerson and Steelman come to mind. Fumble machines. That ain't our guys. Trust 'em. Stop calling plays because you're scared of the worst case possibility. Call 'em expecting the guys to come through!

Step on some necks!!
2 x


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic