March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

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March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby RABBLE » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:42 pm

Yes, its that time again when the RAB makes his spring statement.
5 days and counting until Army begins it's "QUEST for their 5th National Championship !!"

I'm reading the new book I got from Amazon right now about ARMY'S FORGOTTEN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP of 1914. It's packed with old time info.

1914, 1944,1945,1946. That's four. We need one more!!!



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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby armymule » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:48 am

Rab, There are some old polls that also list the 1916 Army Team as National Champion. I think they were co-champions with Pitt that year. Army was 9-0 in 1916 with wins over Notre Dame 30-10 and Navy 15-7.

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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby RABBLE » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:38 pm

If the 1916 team was a co-champion, maybe we can say that Army is in its QUEST for their SIXTH NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP !! ;)
Before 1936, there were many polls by many organizations at the time and most of them retroactively picked a champion well after the team had played football. Years after.
Incidentally, in 1946, although ND won the AP, Army won most of the other organizations national championships. That is why you see 1946 sign on the Michie Stadium wall.
ND did NOT beat Army in 1946 (0-0 tie) head to head. Army was number 1 going into that game. Army did NOT lose. Therefore, if you didn't beat the reigning champ, the reigning champ was still the CHAMP. Joe Steffy said that himself at the time.
In a boxing championship, the champ remains the champ even tho the match wound up a DRAW. Same with football in my book.

Pollsters (AP)did not like Army to win their third straight title. That's why they gave the title to the Irish that year at season's end. ND lost that title in 1948 when Michigan won a post season vote over ND that year when that vote was not supposed to be held in the first place. Maybe the AP had a guilty conscience from 1946 when they screwed Army the way they did. Michigan prevailed and won it in 1948 and "ha-ha!" to Notre Dame.

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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby armymule » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:10 pm

Nineteen sixteen was the last full season of Army football until after World War One. Parke-Davis listed them with Pitt as co- National Champions, and rightfully so. They were coached by the legendary combination of Charlie Daley and Pot Graves. Mainstay of that Army team was Elmer Oliphant. John McEwan, Bif Jones and Gene Vidal also starred for Army that year. Other retro-active pols ignored Army but I don't see how anyone could pick another team over that bunch.

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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby RABBLE » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:52 pm

Army played a full schedule in 1917. In 1918, they opened with the Mitchell Field Aviators, won that game, and canceled the rest of the 1918 season due to WW 1. I have every Army Football game ever played culled from the NY Times, reprinted on 8 by 11 sheets and contained in many 4 inch binders.

ACTUALLY, I'm MISSING FOUR GAMES, AND AFTER HEAVY RESEARCH, I don't believe an account of those four were ever given in a commercially sold newspaper.
The four are in the very early years of the 1890's .
Army's first win ever was over St. John's College (later renamed Fordham) in the opening game of Army's second season in 1891.
Interestingly, all the Army games leading up to the Navy game each year were known as PREPARATORY GAMES those early days.

Every Army game except for the Navy game in those early years was played at West Point by order of the administration of the day. One game tho was reported as being played in Newburgh. Incorrect . The game actually was played at WP but the reporter FILED the report in his hometown of Newburgh so the official WP record has the game being played in Newburgh. The official record was never changed.

Here's another tidbit. Walk into gate 2 at Michie and look at those big boards on the opposite wall listing Army Football accomplishments. You will notice that Earl Blaik is listed as winning COACH of the Year Honors in 1945 and 1953. Nope.
Blaik won the honor in 1946 and 1953-not 1945. That hasn't been changed since those boards went first up years ago.

I told what I thought was a person who had some influence to change the year during one of my game visits but I guess he wasn't that important. It's still wrong.

You just gotta know things like this. ;)


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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby armymule » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:12 am

Rab, Do you have any information in your collections about Helmer "Abe" Lystadt? He was a back on the 1919 team.

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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby Armyfan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:16 pm

Rab, as I remember, Army was No 1 after the tie with ND in '46 only to fall to #2 following the almost loss to Navy.

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Re: March 21, in the year of the Lord 2017 (or thereabouts).

Postby RABBLE » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:49 pm

armyfan--

Correct . Army remained number 1 according to the AP after the 1946 Army-ND game and remained that way until the final weekend of the season until Army had a close win over Navy (21-18) and on the same day later on ND handily beat USC. On the last poll after that weekend for the AP, ND edged out Army for the final number 1 spot.

HOWEVER, other newsworthy polls such as the Helms Athletic Foundation poll, gave Army the edge as did the majority of those other polls of the day. That is why you see Army listed as National Champions in 1946 on the Michie Stadium wall.

As Joe Steffy once said a long time ago, " You are still the champions until you lose". Army never lost to Notre Dame or any other team in 1946.

Listen, there was a lot of anti-Army feeling in the media those days against Army because they had won the previous 2 year championship in 1944 and 1945 and because Army was playing guys that some felt were draft dodgers because they were enrolled at WP and not serving overseas.

In my opinion, generally the media were pissed at that and they gave their vote to the Irish to spite.

Two things here. Those Irish vets were STILL playing in 1949 well into their late 20's as seniors who had played back as far as 1943, 6 years earlier.

Sure , ND won the championship in 1949-with a bunch of men compared to 19 year olds playing at other schools.

Don't forget, Army was undefeated too in 1949 but they sure as hell didn't win any championship that year. It STILL was Notre Dame.

It all caught up to Notre Dame the following year where they nose dived out of the championship . Hell by that time, their players finally graduated after the 7th year.

Army draft dodgers? Hell, even Blaik once said, "Half of those so-called draft dodgers of the mid- forties were killed 6 years later in the mud of Korea".

I rest my case.



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