Heard of the undefeated Harding Bisons?....

[Armyfaninpa]

Army scored 2 TD's and a FG on their first three drives. By the 13 minute mark of the 1st quarter it was a 3 possession game - and remained that way for 47 minutes. Is anyone surprised that they went into a prevent offense for the rest of the game?

[USMAPAFAN]

Great research 2mint! That score is indicative of how you should win with that many turnovers. So our 23-3 victory doesn’t seem nearly as impressive.

[2mint]

Ha! Thanks, but not a lot of research needed as that game is seared in my memory as “one of the most public yet of our many humiliations” (to paraphrase Jackie Chiles) during the wilderness years. This debate seems a little ridiculous. I think it’s fair to say 1) the new offense did not achieve the desired success; 2) the new offense did achieve marginally better success in CIC games (relative to prior years); 3) with a +5 turnover margin, you would have expected a larger margin than our 23-3 victory over Air Force, though part of which was self-inflicted as we got ULTRA conservative in the 2nd half; and 4) overall 2023 was a mixed bag with some good W’s and some head scratching defeats. Regardless, Monken has admitted the offense didn’t meet expectations and that he plans to make changes in the offseason. Not sure what the debate is, but that’s just my two cents.

[PrideandDream]

you might be surprised that while that season had a lot of learnings for us as a team it wasn't a success in my book either. Two FCS wins weren't good enough and several of those games we just didn't finish. There's not a person from that team that would tell you AF was a success in any way that year. We were robbed by the refs against Duke. Fell short at Washington. Failed to convert vs ND. None of that is a secret. What was different that year was the approach and learning the kind of focus and intensity needed to win.

You can change the topic all you like but fact remains you can't build a cohesive argument against the many shortcomings this year. I've challenged you more than once and you resort to personal attacks vs stating some clear facts about our season on the whole.

PD

[ArmyRoadFan7]

Funny how Troy Calhoun doesn't say you can't run under center. Neither does Newberry. Monken is the one who hasn't figured it out o\Academy games are always hard fought. And this year's Air Force game is a statistical outlier. Sure we beat both. We weren't any better than we've been in the past. We kicked 3 FGs on a short field off of turnovers. And we scored Zero points in the 2nd half.

I'll help you with the Air Force game. We had 1 drive that had more than 7 plays. We got 3 turnovers in the 2nd half and scored zero points. We had 13 total possessions and punted 6 times. We had 1 turnover on downs because we couldn't convert 4th and 1. And one possession that was the end of the game. So 5 possessions produced points. Here they are:

1st Possession and a Bryson Daily 62 yard TD run. 4 Plays
2nd Possession started on the Air Force 34 due to an AFA turnover on downs 4 plays later we kicked a FG from the 28
3rd Possession started on the Air Force 43 due to an AFA fumble. 11 plays later TD
4th Possession started on the Air Force 47 due to an AFA fumble 6 plays later we kick a FG from the 23
7th Possession started on the Air Force 25 due to an Interception 5 plays later we kick a FG from the 21

We effectively scored 20 of the 23 points almost entirely in the 1st quarter. Then we did jack squat the rest of the game. Win? Sure well played? Not by a long stretch. We get 3 more turnovers in the 2nd half and produce no points. All of this and we still had 6 yards total fewer than Air Force that day and we had 11 penalties.

Frankly we were lucky we won both AF and Navy. And easily both those games could have turned out differently. Maybe just our time to have some luck. Truth is our defense and special teams won both games. Our offense did very little in either tame to contribute. Kudos to monken for finding a way but that won't last over time.

I'm happy for you to list out how any offensive changes cumulatively helped us be better this year? I'd love to see your list. 3rd Down Conversions? Time of Possession? Red Zone conversions? Rushing yards? Passing completions %? Passing yards? TDs? Fumbles? Interceptions? Average Rushing Yards? Why don't you go compare all those between 2022 and 2023 and figure out where the overall improvement lies? The ultimate proof is that in the middle of bowl season while even lots of bad teams are in bowls we are at home. That is bad for player development, recruiting, and for money to the Athletic Department. So there are lots of losses we are incurring due to this debacle. But hey we won a trophy.

PD

Our crappy new offense rushed for over 200 yards against Navy and Air Force this year. When is the last time we did that? I prefer under center as well and think we should run it against everybody but Air Force and Navy. Last year we had 1 offensive touchdown in regulation against Air Force and Navy. This year we had 3. Air Force and Navy both had problems defending the gun option this year. Our new offense put together some drives in the second half that didn’t produce points but flipped the field on Navy which is huge considering how bad our punting game is.

You are just upset you didn’t get your A Tale of Two Cities I told you so moment that you had been setting up all year for the Air Force game. It blew up in your face. You would rather see Army lose and be right then have Army win and admit that the new offense was a factor in beating Air Force and Navy. Shame on you….

I don't Judge our success purely based on beating AF and Navy. If you like this mediocrity that led us to 6-6 with two FCS wins and an offense that struggled all year long to include Navy and AF then good for you.

What you continue to miss is the opportunity cost of this decision to change schemes. This team easily could have won 9 or 10 games and been in a bowl plus a CIC.

And to be clear I haven't missed my told you so moment. It exists in the records unfortunately and in the results.

And if you think the new offense was some key factor in the Navy and Air Force games then you weren't watching the defense and special teams plays those two days.

I'm reminded of Nick Saban's quote: "Mediocre People Don't Like High Achievers and High Achievers Don't like Mediocre People." We will never see eye to eye on this issue because you are ok with good and I am not even happy with great.

Continue to hang your hat on 6-6, no bowl, but a CIC. Pretty soon you can be 6-6, no bowl and no CIC. This was a 10 win year, bowl, and CIC at a minimum but we will never know because Monken changed schemes to give us an offense that produced less points, less yards, and more turnovers than what we had previously put up in the old boring scheme.

PD

We were 6-6 with no bowl and no CIC with your favorite quarterback last year. So I guess we improved this year.

[kfan12]

We were 6-6 with no bowl and no CIC with your favorite quarterback last year. So I guess we improved this year.

Yes, BUT, the offense hadn't changed without asking the right folks' permission first; therefore the results were more palatable.

[RABBLE]

They just won the D-II National Championship.

So?

They completed all of 26 passes ALL SEASON, while piling up 6,161 yards (NCAA record) running the triple option. Oh yeah, with the same cut block restrictions.

Jus' sayin'...


PS
Merry Christmas

We just do not have a passer or a receiver who could catch the ball. We were lost out there with the gun offense. I would have thought that we left 4 games on the table this year because we did not utilize the talent to the best of their ability. The guys tried their hearts out and it was a shame. I feel for all of them but one shinning light was given to them. They won the biggest of all the prizes anyway-THE CIC TROPHY which made the season good despite all the downfalls.