Army denied bowl

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RABBLE
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by RABBLE »

wpgrad wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:16 am Army’s request to count 2 FCS wins is denied

No bowl for the black knights this year
Gee, I wonder if they would deny Notre Dame a bowl game if they only won only 5 bowl eligible games this year.
Ah, NO.
Politics as usual I would think.
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LoneStarPhan
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by LoneStarPhan »

wpgrad wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:42 pm If we cant win 5 of 10 games on our schedule versus FBS schools, we dont deserve to go to a bowl game
It is really hard to not agree with this. A win over Navy makes Army 4-6 against FBS teams and just does not make them deserving of the chance to go to a bowl game. While it is easy to point to the two FCS games on the schedule, we have to admit that had Army played Tennessee this season, they would be going into the Navy game with a 4-7 record.

A win over Navy will end the season on a positive note. Probably best to let that be the end of the season.
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by Justafan11 »

I think the point of my post is being missed. I'm not arguing the merits of this year's team regarding bowl eligibility. Besides, Tennessee put us in a situation where we needed to fill our schedule with a team that had an open date. Turns out that was Villanova. I'm arguing the merits of our schedule in general. Do we really need Delaware State and Holy Cross next year or Dartmouth in 2024. With two open dates remaining in 2024 I could only imagine what Community College team might be available. 2025 includes Marist and Lehigh. Our team and fans deserve better. We don't have to play Alabama or Georgia but we could still do a better job with the schedule. I'm sure getting teams from the area or region might add more people to our attendance figure but it does nothing to enhance our program. We win - we're supposed to. We lose - we'll be a laughing stock. Scheduling these teams just makes no sense.
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wpgrad
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Re: Army denied bowl

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Justafan11 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:23 pm I think the point of my post is being missed. I'm not arguing the merits of this year's team regarding bowl eligibility. Besides, Tennessee put us in a situation where we needed to fill our schedule with a team that had an open date. Turns out that was Villanova. I'm arguing the merits of our schedule in general. Do we really need Delaware State and Holy Cross next year or Dartmouth in 2024. With two open dates remaining in 2024 I could only imagine what Community College team might be available. 2025 includes Marist and Lehigh. Our team and fans deserve better. We don't have to play Alabama or Georgia but we could still do a better job with the schedule. I'm sure getting teams from the area or region might add more people to our attendance figure but it does nothing to enhance our program. We win - we're supposed to. We lose - we'll be a laughing stock. Scheduling these teams just makes no sense.
Like it or not—look at the data over the years. Northern FCS teams buy tickets, and are often our best attended games, and are typically easy wins. I dont see them going anywhere
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by wp1994 »

wpgrad wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:02 am
Justafan11 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:23 pm I think the point of my post is being missed. I'm not arguing the merits of this year's team regarding bowl eligibility. Besides, Tennessee put us in a situation where we needed to fill our schedule with a team that had an open date. Turns out that was Villanova. I'm arguing the merits of our schedule in general. Do we really need Delaware State and Holy Cross next year or Dartmouth in 2024. With two open dates remaining in 2024 I could only imagine what Community College team might be available. 2025 includes Marist and Lehigh. Our team and fans deserve better. We don't have to play Alabama or Georgia but we could still do a better job with the schedule. I'm sure getting teams from the area or region might add more people to our attendance figure but it does nothing to enhance our program. We win - we're supposed to. We lose - we'll be a laughing stock. Scheduling these teams just makes no sense.
Like it or not—look at the data over the years. Northern FCS teams buy tickets, and are often our best attended games, and are typically easy wins. I dont see them going anywhere
Money talks, for sure. I don’t know how to prove this, but I’m pretty sure we drew more Villanova fans to Michie this year than they usually get in their own stadium. I could say the same for last year’s UMass game at Michie compared to this year in Amherst, but I realize they’re an FBS team.

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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by wp1994 »

Justafan11 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:58 pm If this is true I'm down right angry! I've been arguing this point for years. There are plenty of big name teams that continually struggle with their football program. Indiana (basketball school), Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford (academics). Even regional teams such as Temple, Marshall, Maryland, etc. But no Army continues down this "we don't want anyone to notice us" path. I posted about a month ago asking who Army would fill with their open dates for 2023. Guess what - we got Delaware State and Holy Cross! Looking ahead to next year's schedule I'd say our chances of being in a bowl game are probably way less than 50/50. Please fire the guy making out our schedule - it's disgusting!
It seems like too many fans believe FBS schedule making is easy. Just for starters, football is harder than any other sport based on the long-term nature of the game. The UMass AD talked about this problem during the broadcast last week. Secondly, many of the schools you mentioned above may not even want to play Army, regardless of where it falls in their season. Finally, Army had one of the best administrators of all time doing our FB scheduling for many years, until he left for the head job at LeMoyne. We definitely lost in a big way when Bob Beretta left us in early 2021.

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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by Justafan11 »

First, thank you for everyone's input. I'd be curious to compare numbers - the additional ticket revenue we get by scheduling FCS schools vs. the additional revenue we get from a bowl game. After all, Army is an independent and does not share its bowl revenue. As far as bigger schools wanting to come to Michie I think Oklahoma was pretty excited about wanting to play here (though cancelled) and the game would easily sell-out. I attended the Stanford game a few years back and many of their fans told me they were very happy to make a visit to the USMA. I realize this year is an outlier (potential 6 - 6 record with 2 FCS schools) and this is very unlikely to happen again but I still would like to see Army in a bowl game. Oh well, enough said - Go Army Beat Navy!
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by rog66 »

RABBLE wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:50 pm We just did not play well enough to qualify for a bowl. i hate to say that this season was a big disappointment since the schedule this year was not all that difficult. The injuries to key personnel, Tyrell Robinson for just one example, destroyed our chances. The inexperience of our OL was another. Still another was our inability of naming one starting QB and staying with him thru the entire schedule. Graduation and the lack of qualitative replacements also hurt our chances.
I never liked the idea of Division 1 being split into FBS and FCS. No reason for it. Play who you want to play and let the folks who decide who plays be the final decision make in the bowls.
If Army decides to play as many as they want of FCS teams, so be it. Why penalize any team in DIVISION 1 for the present ruling?
If Army plays a Delaware State or a Holy Cross, so what? We play LSU and Syracuse to balance it out.
They don't pull this nonsense in BASKETBALL, do they? ALL TEAMS open with stiffs earlier in the season before conference play begins in January. yet these teams are never really punished because anybody still has a chance to win their conference and advanced to the NCAA championships.
It should be nothing more than the strength of schedule the way I see it in football, like Basketball is now.
If you are DIVISION 1 you are exactly that. This idea of splitting them in two and are punished for it is nonsense.

We just did not play well enough to qualify for a bowl. Rabble that one sentence sums up what happened this year. I don't need to say anymore after you called it the way that it is. As far as playing two FCS teams, I agree with you it shouldn't matter one single bit. But unfortunately, the NCAA rules only count one FCS to toward a bowl game. That is the disadvantage of scheduling two FCS teams. It's not going to be any easier trying to make a bowl game playing 3 P5 teams next year and having two FCS teams on the schedule again.
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by palidog »

Some thoughts:
1) Tennessee did us a favor. We walked away with a huge paycheck and we would have lost big time to this team, based on how they played this year and how we played this year.
2) Having TWO FCS teams a year is counter productive. We get nothing out of these games except a win (hopefully) and some extra fans in the stands. We would get as many fans playing BC, Syracuse, Rutgers but with the exception of Syracuse, they dont want to play Army on a regular basis.
3) Our schedule is going to get worse, not better in coming years. Two reasons: We cannot compete against the big boys on a regular basis and no one wants to play us in the big leagues because of other commitments.
4) Attendance is down, down, down at West Point and the administration does not seem to care very much. The logistics are horrible for big games with big attendance and this is a military base.
5)Meanwhile, AFA went 9-3 this year against superior competition (yes, I know we almost beat them) and Navy also plays in a real conference and does okay.
6) So, get used to playing more Sun Belt teams who bring few fans and MAC teams who bring few fans and hope that these conferences, along with Conference USA, does not start implementing rules that cut down on the number of out of conference games.
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Re: Army denied bowl

Post by ArmorDude »

Oliphant wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:32 pm Kind of crappy since we were forced to play 2 FCS teams thanks to Tennessee bailing on us.
Pretty sure we would have taken the L there, no?

I think that Hooker would have had a pretty good day against what we put out there and call pass defense ...
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