We suck.

[monkensminion]

Season is a disaster. Our offense is laughable. I’m done. Will attend Army Navy this year, but that’s it. Can’t watch this shit anymore.

[kfan12]

yep. I feel ya.

[ARMORMAN]

And in the words of that famous philosopher Kevin Costner, who played Roy MacAvoy in the movie Tin Cup: "When you reach a defining moment, you either define the moment or the moment defines you."

Jeff is seeing the same thing we are this year, and he saw a similar disaster last year. Obviously, he made a drastic change when he fired Davis, hired Thatcher, and adopted an entirely new offense. It was based largely on a premise that the new cut block rules would never again allow an under-center triple option to succeed.

To this point, under any definition, Thatcher's gun offense has failed. To be shut out at Michie was just the latest and most embarrassing evidence. So, what to do?....

Option 1: Press on, under the theory that this new system needs more time and maturity to succeed. We are likely to end the year with 3 or maybe 4 wins max, with possible loses to both the zooms and squids, but it's only 1 year and it needs more time.

Option 2: Change back after this year. The gun will never give us an EDGE, like the under-center triple did because we are trying to run essentially the same offense as tons of other schools, only with less raw talent. Further, the cut block rules do not prohibit a true triple option from succeeding, as the zoomies are demonstrating with huge success every week.


I've tried to remain objective through the first 6 games, but I'm now hard over that Jeff needs to define this moment by selecting Option 2, firing Thatcher in December and finding a true triple option OC, along with a true offensive line coach. The gun option is not a "new offense" anymore. It's been rehearsed and drilled through spring training, fall camp, and now 6 games. It jus dont work down heah law dog, period. So frankly, if the new OC simply adopts basically the same or a similar zoomie offense, I would not be disappointed; in fact, he'd be doing exactly what Jim Young did decades ago, and it served us well. So credit the zooms, and do what they do! We certainly have the horses to run a helluva triple, with Dailey, Udoh, Reed, Johnson, Stewart, Robinson, etc, and the O line has plenty of beef and strength, they just need proper coaching and technique.

So, stand up, man up, and do what's best for the program. Say, "I thought this would work, but it didn't. My bad. We're going back to the future."

Out.

[wpgrad]

Monken has said in interviews that he spent a few years considering the move, and would have moved a year ago had the new cut block rule been put in place before he started spring ball. Monken is the best coach we have had in modern times, in my opinion.

So, yeah, after 6 friggin weeks, playing our hardest schedule perhaps in Army modern history, it definitely makes sense to scrap it all.

Give it a year or two? Heck no

Give our players a full season to develop and run it? no way.

Just scrap it all, and lets return to the offense that had us gain SEVENTY EIGHT YARDS on 35 carries versus Air Force. Lets return to the offense that had us run 48 (!!!!!) times for 125 yards versus Navy (and in regulation, it was 44 runs for 97 yard)s.

We ran 44 times for 97 yards in regulation last year versus navy, and now you want to switch back to the same offense after 6 games. Incredible.

[RABBLE]

And to top off everything that has been written on the team in this forum--

This week we play LSU down in Death Valley at night in the usual heat and humidity of the deep south.
Monken said before the Syracuse game that we were entering a 4 game stretch called "Murderers Row". We have already been murdered 3 times. Once more and it proves Monken to be correct.

MURDERED??? I guess that is why they call their home, Death Valley. How many times can you die? 4 times is a bit too much.

Such luminaries as Air Force, Coastal and Navy coming up !! Who the hell put this schedule together anyway??

[RABBLE]

Don't coaches usually work within the rules to fit their proven system? Don't they figure out how to work within the system despite the rule change?

It seems to me after the first 6 games he changed his system to placate the rule change. I don't think that was the correct decision based on the results to date.

He recruited the talent he now has for the TO. Example- He starts Harris to run the gun but he is not a gun formation guy. He is a TO guy I think. I believe our coach sacrificed this season to eventually work in new recruits for the next two years at least to accommodate the new rule.

It seems to me to be an overreaction on his part to what he has done.

[ARMORMAN]

First off wp, scrap the sarcasm, savvy? All it does is piss off those who don't happen to share your opinion.

Second, and right to the point, NO ONE, least of all me, suggests returning to the stupidly stubborn and stale and predictable offense of the last year. I say again, NO ONE. That is a complete misrepresentation. So, not "incredible". Sorry, not sorry.

Instead, and a reiteration, we want some semblance of a return to the true under-center triple option, where the play (usually a dive) is not demanded from the press box irrespective of the defensive alignment or reaction. Instead, we let a heady, strong QB (like Dailey) actually READ the defense and either give, keep or pitch accordingly.

And again, even this change will not produce more success if we don't fix our O line deficiency with the right hire(s).

[ArmorDude]

Just scrap it all, and lets return to the offense that had us gain SEVENTY EIGHT YARDS on 35 carries versus Air Force. Lets return to the offense that had us run 48 (!!!!!) times for 125 yards versus Navy (and in regulation, it was 44 runs for 97 yard)s.

We ran 44 times for 97 yards in regulation last year versus navy, and now you want to switch back to the same offense after 6 games. Incredible.

Sorry, but I don't share your optimism that we can score any points against navy with this offense.

HOWEVER, I don't see JM being able to admit he was wrong about anything ... if he was capable of that, we might have had a different QB running the show last year. I think he's a bit stubborn.

[PrideandDream]

I don't think anyone wants the old offense in the sense of the results or play calling and o line play of the last couple years what people want is to go back under center and run the triple option and to do so effectively. We are looking to run the same type offense that Air Force has that ran Brad Roberts down our throat last year on 33 carries and he lead the NCAA in rushing.

However, the only way this happens is to scrap his offensive staff. He's going to need several new coaches with expertise to do this. We have no expertise on our staff with under center triple option. Not as players or as coaches and we have very little FBS experience as coaches on our staff. Very little. I think this is one of the most often overlooked parts of our team. And I don't mean it as these are bad men or that they are not working or trying there best. I purely mean they have a minimal track record of success. The truth is collectively they own this just as Monken owns the decision to change.

Thatcher's offense put up big numbers routinely in his 4 seasons at Nebraska Kearney. It was rare to score less than 30 points during his tenure. There are clearly differences here. Even in his first year as OC they didn't struggle to score points. So something isn't translating. Doesn't matter though.

This is a performance based business. Excuses can not be accepted. This is year 10 not year 1.

[wpgrad]

First off wp, scrap the sarcasm, savvy? All it does is piss off those who don't happen to share your opinion.

Second, and right to the point, NO ONE, least of all me, suggests returning to the stupidly stubborn and stale and predictable offense of the last year. I say again, NO ONE. That is a complete misrepresentation. So, not "incredible". Sorry, not sorry.

Instead, and a reiteration, we want some semblance of a return to the true under-center triple option, where the play (usually a dive) is not demanded from the press box irrespective of the defensive alignment or reaction. Instead, we let a heady, strong QB (like Dailey) actually READ the defense and either give, keep or pitch accordingly.

And again, even this change will not produce more success if we don't fix our O line deficiency with the right hire(s).

You act like Jeff monken, who is probably one of the top two or three best minds when it comes to old-school triple option football, doesn’t know how to run the offense. Like he is actually sitting there, saying to himself, you know, armorman thinks we should run a few more true option plays. you know what, let’s try it!!!