Bring back Shields and Steelman?

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ArmyRoadFan7
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Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by ArmyRoadFan7 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:48 pm

With their program folding do you think it would be a good idea for Monken to bring Shields and Steelman back in some capacity?
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Mastergate
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by Mastergate » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:51 pm

Maybe maybe Shields not Steelman
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Mastergate
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by Mastergate » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:51 pm

Maybe maybe Shields not Steelman
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RABBLE
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by RABBLE » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:05 pm

We go with what we got. The program has made great strides in recent years but this year with all that has happened, not so good. You look at our season to season since Army began to play the game, it has been a rollercoaster, up and down, good times and not so good times. I't's the way it is. Just look ahead, try as hard as you can and hope for the best, not only Saturday but next season onward.
It's been a tough year tho.
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wpgrad
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by wpgrad » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:56 pm

Would love to see steelman back in some capacity. The qb coach has long ties to monken here and at ga southern. But maybe steelman can assist in a different role. Having him and viti on staff would be excellent
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PrideandDream
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by PrideandDream » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:16 pm

Personally not a fan of bringing in coaches without a strong history of success and/or strong experience at a top tier program. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Grads coming back to coach that didn't play at Army when we were at least half way successful. That may seem wrong but I think that their is a very different attitude for guys who played on teams that won more than they lost across a career. I'm all for grads coming back to coach but I want them to go places and see other ways other successful programs run and then succeed in those systems and then come back and add value. We don't need to perpetuate the same systems, practices, or cultures, of prior regimes that didn't succeed. We need to replicate success. Great players don't always make great coaches. Look at guys and their history like Saban, Swinney, Meyer, Miles, and Brown. None were super stand out players yet each has a national title. Sometimes great players make great coaches but not all. That's not meant to slight Steelman or Viti. Both I'm sure are good guys and both gave their blood, sweat, and tears to Army and both wanted to win and succeed immensely. Great competitors both. But they also would benefit by seeing how other programs work and succeed. Viti I think will get recruited by bigger programs and he will take what he's learned from Monken and be very very valuable to another staff that is trying to build something special. He should be picky about where he goes and who he works for.

As for Shields he's not seen any meaningful success anywhere he's been. He's been a head Coach at an NAIA, NCAA Div II, and now an FCS program that is closing down. He's 40-57 as a head coach. And all at significantly lower levels than FBS. And I saw little brilliance when he was here.

I would much rather see us go after some top 25 assistants that want to coordinate or gain greater opportunities. Guys that need to be a Special Teams Coord or Recruiting Coord or even Off or Def coordinator possibly depending on who they are and experience. Bateman was a great asset because he'd come along and done well consistently as a coordinator at Ball State and Elon. And if you remember playing Ball State under ellerson in 2011, 2012,and 2013 he beat us three years in a row. I remember watching those games and thinking "damn when did Ball state get so good on defense". I also remember being super excited about him coming to Army as Coord.

Additionally, I would add that we need guys who are not only great recruiters but also have some connections to the "Talent Centers" for football players. Guys that know GA, TX, FL, LA, SC, NC, DELMARVA, AL, TN, OH would be strongly preferred. FL and AL I think are the two most under recruited states for us currently. both loaded with Talent. We can't regress to the CA strategy under ellerson. That was a true failure. TX and the SE and the Mid Atlantic have made significant contributions to our turn around. Partly because they are relatively close to USMA relative to CA and the west, and mostly because the football in those areas is super competitive. It's no secret at to why FL, GA, TX, AL schools seem to collectively do really well overall. Those states are all loaded with talent and even smaller schools find success (Kennesaw State, GA State, UCF, USF, FAU, Baylor, TCU, Houston, SMU, Texas Tech, all do well when they have good coaches because those states have good talent). Even despite having to compete with large state schools and the school with long histories like UF, FSU, Miami, GA, TX, OU, etc. That's not a perfect theory but I think it's true more often than not.


As a side note this is what Navy did with Newberry from Kennesaw State. Just to be clear, Kennesaw state is an FCS program that played it's first year of football in 2015. They've never had a losing season and made it to the Quarterfinals of the FCS playoffs in '17 and '18 and are headed to the 2nd round this year. His defense was really good there. It's a genius hire by Nuiamotololo but we knew about him too because the Kennesaw St coach Brian Bohannon is a Paul Johnson disciple and connected back to Coach N and Monken.

These are the kinds of guys we should be looking for. Guys that have done really well wherever they've been and have a strong association to excellence. The higher the level the better.

We need guys that have had success and won and have valuable experience that we don't have not guys that bring a wealth of experience from their time at Army.

PD
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keco616
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by keco616 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:48 am

Neither of these guys are credible FCS coaches, let alone FBS. Shields resume reads like a glorified high school coach really.

He spent his time doing a service academy football show WHILE coaching his own FCS team.... what?!
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Dude69
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by Dude69 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 am

I honestly thought that this initial post was intended as sarcasm poking fun at the relatively recent hysterical mob calling for heads to roll after a down season preceded by a new found success and relevancy that Army Football has not seen in decades.

Anyway, I found the "Bring back Shields and Steelman?" subject line to be really funny. It only lacked the inclusion of Ellerson for a LMAO off post.
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keco616
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by keco616 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:20 pm

Dude69 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:41 am
I honestly thought that this initial post was intended as sarcasm poking fun at the relatively recent hysterical mob calling for heads to roll after a down season preceded by a new found success and relevancy that Army Football has not seen in decades.

Anyway, I found the "Bring back Shields and Steelman?" subject line to be really funny. It only lacked the inclusion of Ellerson for a LMAO off post.
Well, John Loose should definitely be under review...
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losttribe
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Re: Bring back Shields and Steelman?

Post by losttribe » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:16 pm

wpgrad wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:56 pm
Would love to see steelman back in some capacity. The qb coach has long ties to monken here and at ga southern. But maybe steelman can assist in a different role. Having him and viti on staff would be excellent
Trent Steelman was a very good player for West Point. He did not and does not have the same sort of personal reputation within the school as Mike Viti.

There is no way I would bring him onto the staff.
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