New Offense
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- Warrior
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Re: New Offense
Without any Army football to watch, we might as well speculate a bit about our new offense. I thought it would be interesting to compare Army’s full season run/pass split vs Nebraska Kearny’s (UNK) when Drew Thatcher was OC there. Here we go:
In 2022, Army Ran the ball 646 times and had 104 pass attempts. Army ran the ball 86% of the time. When we did pass, we averaged 8.8 yards per pass. We averaged 5.4 yards per rush attempt. We averaged 4.9 yards per attempt.
During our best year under JM, 2018 (AKA Kelvin Hopkins 1.0), Army ran the ball 844 times and had 98 pass attempts. Army ran the ball about 90% of the time even with a good passing QB. When we did pass, we averaged 10.6 yards per attempt.
In 2022, UNK ran the ball 490 times and had 179 pass attempts. They ran the ball about 73% of the time. When they passed, they averaged 8.5 yards per play. When they ran, they averaged 5.9 yards per run.
I also took a look at UNK in 2021 and their run/pass split was identical to 2022.
My takeaways from the UNK stats are
o They were run first
o They threw more short passes than Army
o Despite being run first, they threw the ball 2-2.5X as many times as Army
When Army had its best record, we threw 1 of 10 times and tended to throw longer passes.
I am a bit surprised at how often UNK threw the ball. I was expecting more passes than Army, perhaps something like 80% runs. I guess that a 73/27 mix isn’t that far off, but I have a tough time seeing JM throw the ball 1 out of every 4 plays.
In 2022, Army Ran the ball 646 times and had 104 pass attempts. Army ran the ball 86% of the time. When we did pass, we averaged 8.8 yards per pass. We averaged 5.4 yards per rush attempt. We averaged 4.9 yards per attempt.
During our best year under JM, 2018 (AKA Kelvin Hopkins 1.0), Army ran the ball 844 times and had 98 pass attempts. Army ran the ball about 90% of the time even with a good passing QB. When we did pass, we averaged 10.6 yards per attempt.
In 2022, UNK ran the ball 490 times and had 179 pass attempts. They ran the ball about 73% of the time. When they passed, they averaged 8.5 yards per play. When they ran, they averaged 5.9 yards per run.
I also took a look at UNK in 2021 and their run/pass split was identical to 2022.
My takeaways from the UNK stats are
o They were run first
o They threw more short passes than Army
o Despite being run first, they threw the ball 2-2.5X as many times as Army
When Army had its best record, we threw 1 of 10 times and tended to throw longer passes.
I am a bit surprised at how often UNK threw the ball. I was expecting more passes than Army, perhaps something like 80% runs. I guess that a 73/27 mix isn’t that far off, but I have a tough time seeing JM throw the ball 1 out of every 4 plays.
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- Warrior
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Re: New Offense
Thats good stuff!! Nicely written up.WrekDivr wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:36 pm Without any Army football to watch, we might as well speculate a bit about our new offense. I thought it would be interesting to compare Army’s full season run/pass split vs Nebraska Kearny’s (UNK) when Drew Thatcher was OC there. Here we go:
In 2022, Army Ran the ball 646 times and had 104 pass attempts. Army ran the ball 86% of the time. When we did pass, we averaged 8.8 yards per pass. We averaged 5.4 yards per rush attempt. We averaged 4.9 yards per attempt.
During our best year under JM, 2018 (AKA Kelvin Hopkins 1.0), Army ran the ball 844 times and had 98 pass attempts. Army ran the ball about 90% of the time even with a good passing QB. When we did pass, we averaged 10.6 yards per attempt.
In 2022, UNK ran the ball 490 times and had 179 pass attempts. They ran the ball about 73% of the time. When they passed, they averaged 8.5 yards per play. When they ran, they averaged 5.9 yards per run.
I also took a look at UNK in 2021 and their run/pass split was identical to 2022.
My takeaways from the UNK stats are
o They were run first
o They threw more short passes than Army
o Despite being run first, they threw the ball 2-2.5X as many times as Army
When Army had its best record, we threw 1 of 10 times and tended to throw longer passes.
I am a bit surprised at how often UNK threw the ball. I was expecting more passes than Army, perhaps something like 80% runs. I guess that a 73/27 mix isn’t that far off, but I have a tough time seeing JM throw the ball 1 out of every 4 plays.
My gut is we will throw at least 2x as much as we have in year's past. So if we did 104 passes in 12 games, thats 8 passes per game. I think we will be double that in 2023.
As I have posted before, a guy like monken doesn't fire his LONG TIME friend and coach unless he is planning to make changes. If we passed 8 times a game in 2022 with Davis, and we pass 8 times a game in 2023 with new guy, I will be 100% shocked.
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Re: New Offense
wpgrad - your take makes sense. I think the other difference is that more of the passes will be quicker and shorter. With the flexbone TO, most passes are over the heads of the D as they crowd the line. We averaged 63 Offensive plays per game last year and 71 in 2018, so 16 passes are 22-25% of our offensive plays. This frequency is less likely to catch someone by surprise making it tougher to just throw it over their heads.
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Re: New Offense
Matt Drinkell who last year was TE coach and is now
Co-off. Cord. with Thatcher, not Asst. OC. Is there any
chance JM did this to keep some of the old offense
in play ?
Co-off. Cord. with Thatcher, not Asst. OC. Is there any
chance JM did this to keep some of the old offense
in play ?
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Re: New Offense
The offense will have a pistol look, featuring a QB in shotgun and two running backs. Definitely read option/triple option fundamentals, so the FB is not obsolete just yet. Not sure whether we will be in 12 or 13 personnel. My guess is there will be a TE either in line or flexed out a bit. Also, not sure of blocking schemes. There seems to be a great deal of excitement in the program over this, but I think everyone also realizes this is new so not sure how long it will take to fully grasp it. Definitely a run heavy package, so it will be interesting to see how they get all these talented running backs onto the field.
Had to be done in some fashion though. Having small QBs, or any QB under center the majority of the time just wasn't sustainable in the new age of football, particularly against teams whose defenses are dominant or really quick and athletic up front. Those types of teams were gapping and slanting, running twists and stunts, anticipating snap counts and creating general havoc in the backfield. Our linemen couldn't handle it.
Had to be done in some fashion though. Having small QBs, or any QB under center the majority of the time just wasn't sustainable in the new age of football, particularly against teams whose defenses are dominant or really quick and athletic up front. Those types of teams were gapping and slanting, running twists and stunts, anticipating snap counts and creating general havoc in the backfield. Our linemen couldn't handle it.
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- PrideandDream
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Re: New Offense
Well accept that Air Force ran under center and out of the flexbone and traditional TO. Being under center wasn't the issue but execution by the O line was. It's been all over the film the last couple of years.
This is a huge gamble and will seal Monken's fate. He will either be the hero or the goat. No in between.
PD
This is a huge gamble and will seal Monken's fate. He will either be the hero or the goat. No in between.
PD
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- kfan12
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Re: New Offense
The biggest gamble may have been keeping Mike Viti as O-line coach and perhaps Conor Hughes as the Head Football Strength and Conditioning Coach as well. Nice thing to do in giving Viti more run, we will see if it was the best thing for Army Football.
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- ARMORMAN
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Re: New Offense
Good points all, especially the "mystery" of why af has had continued success with an offensive scheme that went south on us. Personally, I think it had a lot to do with bigger and better O line talent/coaching/blocking schemes, hugely more effective/innovative OC play-calling, and allowing QB's to actually run the option. Having Roberts carrying the mail didn't hurt either. That kid was like the second-coming of Christian McCaffrey. Speed/power to burn...
In any event, we are where we are, and I for one am very impressed and excited. Coach Monken has made a "bold range change" to use an artillery phrase. It takes guts and vision to do what he's done. I like that it's still a run-heavy offense, I like that it uses short passing routes which don't require QB's with cannon arms, and what I REALLY like is that it gets the ball in the hands of legitimate play-makers by using smart QB's who are allowed to read the defense. With all the possibilities, defenses can no longer just stack us.
Aside from our prior OC's predictable and ineffective play-calling, the thing that most frustrated me was seeing our talent go vastly under-utilized. Go all the way back to Fred C Cooper, or Kell Walker, or most recently, Tyrell Robinson. Think Edgar Poe or now Isaiah Alston. Many other examples of great run/catch talent mostly wasted by having them blocking cornerbacks or linebackers while our B backs try to pound out 3 yards with no hole. Not very innovative, not very imaginative, and in the end, not very effective.
Speaking of Tyrell, I'd sure be interested if anyone knows how his rehab is progressing....
In any event, we are where we are, and I for one am very impressed and excited. Coach Monken has made a "bold range change" to use an artillery phrase. It takes guts and vision to do what he's done. I like that it's still a run-heavy offense, I like that it uses short passing routes which don't require QB's with cannon arms, and what I REALLY like is that it gets the ball in the hands of legitimate play-makers by using smart QB's who are allowed to read the defense. With all the possibilities, defenses can no longer just stack us.
Aside from our prior OC's predictable and ineffective play-calling, the thing that most frustrated me was seeing our talent go vastly under-utilized. Go all the way back to Fred C Cooper, or Kell Walker, or most recently, Tyrell Robinson. Think Edgar Poe or now Isaiah Alston. Many other examples of great run/catch talent mostly wasted by having them blocking cornerbacks or linebackers while our B backs try to pound out 3 yards with no hole. Not very innovative, not very imaginative, and in the end, not very effective.
Speaking of Tyrell, I'd sure be interested if anyone knows how his rehab is progressing....
Last edited by ARMORMAN on Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Offense
i thought i heard that drinkall took over the O-line?
Drinkall's twitter says he's the co-offensive coordinator/O-line, but our website says he still tight ends
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Re: New Offense
i agree...i'm not sure we needed to totally revamp our offense, we just needed someone else running itprideandream wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:31 am Well accept that Air Force ran under center and out of the flexbone and traditional TO. Being under center wasn't the issue but execution by the O line was. It's been all over the film the last couple of years.
This is a huge gamble and will seal Monken's fate. He will either be the hero or the goat. No in between.
PD
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