New Offense

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WrekDivr
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New Offense

Post by WrekDivr »

I found this online clinic coach Thatcher gave on YouTube. He discusses some of the reads and blocking in his offense at UNK, including a couple of examples from game film. I found it interesting and thought some here would, too.

https://youtu.be/fqi5oeEJOaQ
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wpgrad
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Re: New Offense

Post by wpgrad »

Thanks for sharing. I have no idea if this offense will work, but it was the right call to change. We'll see what happens. Noted, that I was in favor of Todd Berry and i was in favor the move to CUSA at the time.
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hammerdown
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Re: New Offense

Post by hammerdown »

Nice Find. Granted its only a few plays discussed, but it
seems you need speed/quickness. Not sure Army has
enough of it. Hate to see Army completely go away
from the FB and QB under center. Yes, last year was
very frustrating, and changes need to be made.
But, do we have to totally go away from what
got us back to winning .
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WrekDivr
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Re: New Offense

Post by WrekDivr »

Here’s another clip. What was interesting to me in this one is where he shows how to beat 9 men in the box. He uses the same formation and to run an option and throw a pass.

https://youtu.be/OgIEaRMRQgk
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ArmyRoadFan7
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Re: New Offense

Post by ArmyRoadFan7 »

Somebody else brought it up but perhaps the offense will be a souped up version of what they ran in the 2017 Air Force game and thereafter.


https://youtu.be/aHLVb6C5ksg
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WrekDivr
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Re: New Offense

Post by WrekDivr »

Here’s a clip that focuses on the Triple Option. As ArmyRoadFan mentions, some of this does look like the AF game in 2017, with perhaps more focus on the perimeter. In a couple of examples, the defense has 8 in the box which leads me to believe that they had a lot of runs between the tackles. The first live play in the clip looks like their version of the dive.

The AF clip reminds me that any offense runs better when you have guys like Toth and Holland on the line. We were certainly able to move the ball on AF (and pretty much everyone else) that year.

https://youtu.be/6DJuSrOLqew
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Boris23
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Re: New Offense

Post by Boris23 »

From what I have read on these posts with reference to the coaching changes and, to a significant degree,
discerned from my my, admittedly, not professionally informed view of the You Tube presentation
of Coach Thatcher's offense, the foundation is being laid for a potentially difficult, if not totally unrewarding, season given the schedule that Army will face next year.

The critical issues, I subjectively think, revolve around the new offensive coordinator's lack of experience in Division I coaching, Coach Viti's largely insubstantial resume and performance as an offensive line coach and Coach Monken's inability/unwillingness to commit to the prolonged "grunt' work in drills and contact scrimmages required to coordinate offensive play and, particularly, offensive line play at the level required to consistently execute a high-powered balanced and not run-centered Division I offense.

Coach Monken, I believe, can at times sacrifice work on fundamentals and scrimmaging to the installation, rather than perfecting the execution, of his playbook. He has also sated, I have read, that last year's offensive line was the best that he has had at Army which is surprising, since the Holland/Toth lines seemed both stronger and more soundly coached.

That Coach Monken chose not to hire an experienced interior line coach or retain a fullback coach is telling and ill-conceived. As of now the interior line, absent quality work and an up-grade in size, length and speed at the guard position in particular, does not have the strength to collectively move quality defenders in a two to three yard surge, block reliably at the second level or to reach the perimeter with any consistency, let alone pass protect with any great effect ( both Cadets Ballard and Tyler were constantly forced to hurry their passes and throw off of their back foot last season on critical passing downs) for prolonged periods, in a hard fought match, against well-coached opponents.

I believe Coach Davis recruited these players to service his passing game and not to enhance a run-oriented true triple option offence.

I likewise think that the inopportune offside penalties, motion penalties and faulty quarterback-center and mesh exchanges that persistently intrude have been flaws stemming from inconstant application and instruction on the part of the coaches more so than an unwillingness or ineptitude on the part of the players,

Unless these areas are addressed and a sound base is laid for the running game in Coach Thatcher's scheme, which would ideally emanate from the quarterback's operating from under center and then incorporate the "shotgun" formations with the read-option elements, Army's ground game will be compromised and unreliable and the importance of sustaining a significant advantage in "time of possession" derogated.
Last edited by Boris23 on Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PrideandDream
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Re: New Offense

Post by PrideandDream »

I can only hope that Monken has insights, and he should, that none of us have. Time will tell.

One thing is for sure, Coach Monken had better be making this gamble with the priority of winning at USMA. That is job 1. If it is because he thinks he's uncompetitive for jobs due to the style offense we have traditionally had and that is his main driver then he is wrong. His job isn't to experiment it's to win. So he has to be right on this or he loses on both fronts. And if he thinks it's tough getting another opportunity now just wait till you are a 3-9 coach at a Service Academy and see how that goes. I know he knows this. Just really hoping he's got deep insights into why this offense is going to be better.

Here's what I'm struggling with in the YouTube videos. I'm assuming the 3rd option is Pass? Or maybe that's the first option at times? I just struggle with the idea that we are going to be so good pass blocking or have the kind of matchups needed to throw consistently. The other thing that bothers me significantly is how fast plays develop out of the shotgun in the run game. Let's be clear snapping the ball 5 yards deep to then attack the line of scrimmage takes longer to develop and lacks the same momentum for the ball carrier as being under center. So when you don't maintain and sustain blocks, as Monken quotes in press conferences all the time, you are likely to have more negative plays. That part is really critical in all this. I know we did some stuff vs AF in 2017 but my god think about that team and how they executed up front and we did so with a QB who never ever passed in Bradshaw.

Time is going to tell but this is either going to be glorious or disastrous. There won't be any in-between.

PD
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Dong Fong '09
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Re: New Offense

Post by Dong Fong '09 »

every time i watch bradshaw i wonder why we ever went away from that type of QB.

I'll take a 215 pound qb that runs through arm tackles, falls forward, and makes correct reads any day over someone who is fast.
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wpgrad
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Re: New Offense

Post by wpgrad »

Dong Fong '09 wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:59 am every time i watch bradshaw i wonder why we ever went away from that type of QB.

I'll take a 215 pound qb that runs through arm tackles, falls forward, and makes correct reads any day over someone who is fast.
my favorite Army quarterback of all time.

regarding the offense, yes, I 100% agree. It is going to be glorious or it is going to be a disaster.

Regarding the passes, my understanding from the couple of hours I have spent in total on this topic is that the offense uses short passes to the perimeter to replace the pre-chop block rule runs that got the ball to the outside.
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