Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Discussing Army Black Knights football, basketball and more. United States Military Academy sports forum. West Point athletics discussion board.
WrekDivr
Warrior
Posts: 2209
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:04 pm
x 92
Contact:

Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by WrekDivr »

I’m not. Much of an Xs and Os guy, but with the hire of Drew Thatcher as our OC, I got interested. There is. Ton of info out there on the “Gun Triple Option.” Some refer to it as modernizing the Triple Option. Here is the evolution as I understand it:

o It started with the Veer Offense. Generally run with 2 backs, one on each side and of the QB, but further back from the LOS. On the TO, the back to the run side is the dive back and the other back becomes the pitch back.

o Then came the Wishbone Triple Option Offense. This evolution adds the Fullback to the two backs from the Veer. The Fullback becomes the dive back and the back to the run side becomes a blocker and the other back becomes the pitch back.

o Next up is the Flexbone Triple Option, which has been Army’s offense for the last several years. This offense has the Fullback and two Slotbacks that line up just outside of the tackle. The slotback away from the run side goes in motion toward the run side. The Fullback is the dive back and the motion Slotback is the pitch back.

o Some have evolved to the Gun Triple Option which moves the QB back into the shotgun or pistol. Like the Veer, there are two halfbacks, one on each side of the QB and a little further from the LOS. The back to the run side is the dive back and usually crosses the center to the A gap on the opposite side. The other back becomes the pitch back.

I am sure this is way over-simplified, but it helped me put it into perspective.

Now the key question: is the Gun Triple Option a real TO offense, or just some hype? I would like to hear what members of this board are thinking.
1 x
User avatar
PrideandDream
Warrior
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:36 am
x 2
x 127
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by PrideandDream »

Personally think this is a gimmick that is unlikely to give us an advantage.

Love it or hate it but the inside play of the fullback and the QB are key to being a run dominated ball control offense. IMO the Gun actually hurts your inside run game for many reasons.

I still contend our offensive woes were almost all executional on the O line. Second to that not having an every down Fullback to carry the load inside also hurts us. We don't run option because we don't want to put the ball on the ground. Eliminating the pitch does that. That too is a problem. You can't not pitch you have to learn to master it. but when assignments break down up front and you don't block well on the perimeter you certainly don't want to be pitching the ball.

This is an all out gamble by Monken and he either looks like a genius or a fool. There is no in between.

PD
0 x
WrekDivr
Warrior
Posts: 2209
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:04 pm
x 92
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by WrekDivr »

Thanks for the perspective, P&D. I think you nailed the biggest downside to the gun: the speed that the FB dive hits the line, giving the D little chance to react. The QB inside run is similar. When our O was working well, these plays were a guaranteed 3-4 yards.

Is the trade off an easier read because the QB is back a bit?

There are books, videos, clinics, etc all focused on the Gun TO offense. Most claim they are modernizing the TO.

Whatever it is, I am anxious to see the Army version live.
0 x
User avatar
PrideandDream
Warrior
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:36 am
x 2
x 127
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by PrideandDream »

I totally believe the lack of speed at which the FB hits the "A" gap or "0" through the center is key to our success. Backing up the QB may help buy time if the blocks of the center and guards aren't being held but if you are getting beat there then it's already over anyway.
0 x
User avatar
RABBLE
Warrior
Posts: 31024
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:30 pm
x 78
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by RABBLE »

We have not run a true triple option anyway the past few years to speak of any way. So why not shake up a few things and try something different.
0 x
FSUBulldog0
Warrior
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:31 pm
Location: Denver
x 34
x 28
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by FSUBulldog0 »

Interesting, and long article on the Gun option.

http://www.flexbonenation.com/blog/2019 ... ple-option
0 x
User avatar
RABBLE
Warrior
Posts: 31024
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:30 pm
x 78
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by RABBLE »

With my limited knowledge on the game of football, I would say this new Gun Offense will be almost the norm.
Under center will be gone but my only question is what we do on 4th and 1 and goal line plays. It seems to me that the power and quickness of the old TO will be ineffective to a great extent and teams will know when and if we use the old TO, they will know exactly what is coming and will stack the line even more so to prevent the short yardage gain.
Block sustaining and speed will be the gain under the new system. Perimeter plays will be essential with pure speed and effective blocking to the outside. Will our OL be able to do it? Big question.
I just do not want another 6-6 campaign. I would love to see us get to an 8 win season with a CIC and a bowl game. With Syracuse, BC and LSU on the schedule, it will not be an easy chore for a team changing their offensive scheme.
0 x
User avatar
kfan12
Warrior
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:33 am
x 2
x 70
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by kfan12 »

RABBLE wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:26 pm With my limited knowledge on the game of football, I would say this new Gun Offense will be almost the norm.
Under center will be gone but my only question is what we do on 4th and 1 and goal line plays. It seems to me that the power and quickness of the old TO will be ineffective to a great extent and teams will know when and if we use the old TO, they will know exactly what is coming and will stack the line even more so to prevent the short yardage gain.
Block sustaining and speed will be the gain under the new system. Perimeter plays will be essential with pure speed and effective blocking to the outside. Will our OL be able to do it? Big question.
I just do not want another 6-6 campaign. I would love to see us get to an 8 win season with a CIC and a bowl game. With Syracuse, BC and LSU on the schedule, it will not be an easy chore for a team changing their offensive scheme.
Unfortunately, as I see it, this will likely be a “rebuilding year” with the new offense. As I see the schedule, we likely have 3 wins, 6 losses and 3 tossups on the schedule. Not sure what happened to Coastal Caroline in the last three games, but they sort of fell off a cliff at the end of 22-23.
School		2022 Record		Army W/L/Tossup	
ULM   		4-8			W
DSU		5-6			W
UTSA		11-3			L
Syracuse	7-6			L
BC		3-9			T
Troy		12-2			L
LSU		10-4			L
UMass		1-11			W
AFA		10-3			L
Holy Cross	12-1			L
CC		9-4			T 
Navy		4-8			T

0 x
BG
hammerdown
Warrior
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:39 am
x 6
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by hammerdown »

kfan12 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:13 am
RABBLE wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:26 pm With my limited knowledge on the game of football, I would say this new Gun Offense will be almost the norm.
Under center will be gone but my only question is what we do on 4th and 1 and goal line plays. It seems to me that the power and quickness of the old TO will be ineffective to a great extent and teams will know when and if we use the old TO, they will know exactly what is coming and will stack the line even more so to prevent the short yardage gain.
Block sustaining and speed will be the gain under the new system. Perimeter plays will be essential with pure speed and effective blocking to the outside. Will our OL be able to do it? Big question.
I just do not want another 6-6 campaign. I would love to see us get to an 8 win season with a CIC and a bowl game. With Syracuse, BC and LSU on the schedule, it will not be an easy chore for a team changing their offensive scheme.
Unfortunately, as I see it, this will likely be a “rebuilding year” with the new offense. As I see the schedule, we likely have 3 wins, 6 losses and 3 tossups on the schedule. Not sure what happened to Coastal Caroline in the last three games, but they sort of fell off a cliff at the end of 22-23.
School		2022 Record		Army W/L/Tossup	
ULM   		4-8			W
DSU		5-6			W
UTSA		11-3			L
Syracuse	7-6			L
BC		3-9			T
Troy		12-2			L
LSU		10-4			L
UMass		1-11			W
AFA		10-3			L
Holy Cross	12-1			L
CC		9-4			T 
Navy		4-8			T

You have Army losing to Holy Cross. If that's the case,
it's going to be a real bad season. Also, A.F. I think
is a toss up, A.F. loses QB Daniels, RB Roberts, and
Wr Cormier, they accounted for about 75% of there O.
0 x
Dong Fong '09
Warrior
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:58 am
x 8
x 107
Contact:

Re: Is the “Gun Triple” a real TO Offense?

Post by Dong Fong '09 »

i believe CC's qb transferred out. that helps
0 x
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], DoubleNuts, Google [Bot], LoneStarPhan, thedoc85 and 189 guests