The $64,000 question(s)

[palidog]

I realize that there are some here who never want to speak positively about Air Force or Navy. But, as a non-grad, 55-year fan of Army football, I can't help but see the success AFA has had over the decades in the Mountain West Conference, which is not a bad football conference at all.

So I will ask the hard question:

1) How can AFA, 8-0 and ranked 16/17 in the nation, be so successful, with pretty much the same restrictions as Army and Navy, for so long?

To me, it comes down to a few things.

A) Talent. I go to every Army home game and watch every Army away game on TV....I also watch just about every AFA game. To the naked eye, AFA simply has a lot more talent than Army. For example, they have a QB who can actually throw the ball AND run the ball. With one or two exceptions, Army has spent the last 30 years without a quarterback who can actually throw the ball effectively.

Another example is their defense is stout, especially the last few years. They tackle correctly (not arm tackling that is prevalent at West Point). They play pretty good pass defense and they mix it up a lot. Against 2-7 UMASS, their running back ran for more than 200 yards because Army's defense did not know how to defend against a counter. Time and time and time and time again.

B) The offensive scheme. Call it an option or anything else, it works. AFA is leading the country in rushing, but they also pass the ball when they have to. The offensive line is big (Army has a big offensive line too) but they are also good. They know what they are doing.

As for Army, it is extremely clear to me that this shotgun option, for lack of a better term, is not going to work. I know it will take at least two seasons for the Army brass to get that.

For one, see above about the offensive line not being very good. Two, is that it takes two long to get going and, THREE, there is no Plan B. Army runs the same five or six plays every time. It is a miracle when they run a slant pattern pass play or run some other play that is standard at virtually every other program across the country.

C) Coaching. Jeff Monken has done wonders at West Point. So has the schedule maker and now that is going to change with the AAC. But, as stated above, the Army defense is terrible at basic tackling, gives up too many big plays and never has a pass rush. The offense? Oh boy, blocking is terrible, passing is terrible, play calling is terrible, penalties are terrible, turnovers are terrible. Two-yard punt? C'mon.

We can blame this all on the players, but the coaching is terrible because they have to teach these kids. And, they have to give them every tool to help them succeed. When my son sits in the stands and correctly predicts the next Army offensive play and is right 90 percent of the time, we have a problem.

So I ask again, how can AFA be so successful, with pretty much the same restrictions as Army and Navy, for so long?

[ARMORMAN]

I'll take a couple of stabs at an excellent question, because it's an unmistakable, unavoidable truth. Just look at the CIC stats, if not the regular season records. Air Force has been better forever. Once in a blue moon we upset them, and that's what it is: an upset. Because year in, year out, they have been better forever.

So, why? My theories:

First off, they foster, and have always had, an underdog, chip-on-their-shoulder mentality. They don't have the tradition, the pageantry, or the history. Army/Navy is "America's Game". Both A and N have won National Championships, both have had Heisman winners, and both have a century or more of glamour. So, since they took up the sport, air force has made it their holy crusade to be better than their older brothers. The entire academy, imho, has always been unified and caught up in that mission. To be better. And by and large, they have succeeded.

Second, the first point translates to "whatever is needed". That means the administration and the alumni support the football staff with whatever assets are necessary to win. Obviously, funding, but also every conceivable behind-the-scene support. You ask, they give, period. There's no arguing about whether football is important enough in the academy mission to merit this or that. They ARE. Everyone signs up. Sometimes, that kind of attitude can translate into some "questionable" policies or procedures, like the 6 year covid turnbacks, for example. But again, whatever is needed....

Third, they maintain stability in their coaching staff and their philosophy. They've had exactly THREE head coaches in forever, and those guys sign a blood oath to stay at the school, to not run around courting other Power 5 offers, to run an under-center triple option-based offense, and to find, hire and pay and keep the absolute best and most qualified coordinators and position coaches, many of whom are afa grads themselves.

Finally, they recruit outstanding quality players from football-crazy states, like texas, florida, california, etc. They incentivize 'em with all that air force pretty scarf/pilot bullshit and they badmouth Army as a low class boots-in-the-mud option. Whatever works; they don't much care about gentlemanly codes... They go get better athletes; again, by and large.

I'm sure there are other reasons, and I'll be interested to hear 'em, because this has stuck in my craw for decades. Give the devil his due though, they're about to add to their CIC total...

[wpgrad]

1. AF does not play by the same rules. Never had, never will. See: turning back 40 players for covid
See: coach after coach, especially 10-20 years ago, whose entire AF service was “coaching”
See: their funding model

They are not a spartan service academy (which is fine) and they let you know (army is grunts and mud)

AF has been doing shi& for decades that monken fought to implement in 2015

2. Dont underestimate the power of percrption. AF is cleam, new, shiny. They had carpet in the barracks in 1990. Army lives in 200 year old buildings with no air conditioning

3. Don’t underestimate base locations. Have you been to 4-5 AF bases and compared everything to its Army equivalent? Army has mold in run down barracks and AF is shiny

4. They have first dibs on 2/3rds of the country geographically that want an academy

5. Maybe things are different in 2023, but if i had 50 buddies at west point i betcha 48 of us applied to army and navy…but not Air Force. I’m sure the reverse is true

6. I went to airborne school with like 100 cadets and like 25 zoomies. All us cadets were like freedom! We can order taje out! We have only 2 guys per room!! This place is awesome. And all the AF cadets were like wow, this place is a dump

AF is an academy but….if you asked them who you want to be like, they’ll never say Army. They’ll say say san diego state

[PrideandDream]

Lots of good points here by all. But in short they value winning football games. West Point values image and politics. We like to look good in a parade. Air Force could care less about a parade. We all too often get in our own way for football. Hell we have people that can't even figure out how to route traffic and optimize parking on game day.

Air Force Coaching Bios

Army Football Coaching Bios

But when you get right down to it I think the big thing is the coaching. If you want a current day analysis go read each biography of the Air Force Coaching Staff. Then go read the biographies of the Army Coaching Staff. If you pay attention and look for experience as a coach and a player you will find they are light years beyond our staff. And I haven't gone back to look but my gut tells me that Monken's original staff had way more experience than the staff we currently have. Seriously take a few minutes and click through these bios. The AF staff has tremendously stronger experience both as coaches and as players than our staff.

It's funny because I don't know how many people realize prior to Calhoun was DeBerry. And DeBerry was hired by Ken Hatfield. And Ken Hatfield played for Frank Broyles and won a national title at Arkansas along with teammates like Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones. Hell before Hatfield Bill Parcells coached Air Force for a year and their very first Coach played at Army under Red Blaik. But my point is that they have a long line of coaches with real credentials. And their staff's have had lots of guys with real credentials.

Personally I think we are trying to get assistant coaches and coordinators on the cheap. USMA things giving you on post housing is a big perk. Well maybe to Drew Thatcher but not to Jay Bateman who left to go to UNC and is now at Florida. You get what you pay for.

[gabn92]

The right questions to be asking…if they can do it, there is no reason Army can’t. So far it’s a matter of “won’t” from the administration and I think ego with Monken. The plain fact is AF has figured some things out and we could learn a thing or two by studying them: from the administration to the coaching. Consistency has certainly been a key to their success.

I’ve become more and more convinced a major problem is the O-line for Army. Would love to see them get someone to coach who has played the position. Villanueva a possibility? What about Toth…playing for the Panthers right now but maybe after the season? He’s likely got some time still owed to the reserves…being at USMA could make that easy to serve and pay back while helping improve the O-line.

I love having Viti on the staff…but find another role for the man!

[palidog]

Pride and Dream: Noticed in the AFA/Colorado State game, some AFA players had longer hair and facial hair. I was a bit surprised by that, but that says to me a more lax atmosphere that might play a big role in getting better recruits. I know they are 8-0, but even in average years, the AFA players always seem to be having a good time and enjoying the game. I dont see that from our team nearly as much.

[PrideandDream]

Well I can't comment on their haircuts. I'm certain it's more relaxed though.

Most USMA grads I know still have a certain uneasiness about West Point. It's not the funnest of places. In fact I would argue it's maybe the most serious place I have ever been.

I still believe the expertise and experience in coaching is a whopping difference now between us and AFA.

PD

[ArmyRoadFan7]

Navy and Air Force programs have higher ceilings than we do. Just look at the best quarterbacks Navy has had since 2009. Dobbs, Reynolds and Perry. Our best guys are probably Steelman, Bradshaw and Hopkins. Would any of those 3 have started at Navy? Army has to play a certain way to win and chucking 40 yard bombs and back corner end zone throws on 4th and 2 isn’t the way.