Heard of the undefeated Harding Bisons?....

[ARMORMAN]

They just won the D-II National Championship.

So?

They completed all of 26 passes ALL SEASON, while piling up 6,161 yards (NCAA record) running the triple option. Oh yeah, with the same cut block restrictions.

Jus' sayin'...


PS
Merry Christmas

[USMAPAFAN]

So I guess this debate will stretch into 2024!

[wpgrad]

They just won the D-II National Championship.

So?

They completed all of 26 passes ALL SEASON, while piling up 6,161 yards (NCAA record) running the triple option. Oh yeah, with the same cut block restrictions.

Jus' sayin'...


PS
Merry Christmas

FCS talent beat FCS talent running option with new rules

You wanna take FCS talent and beat FBS talent running option with new rules

Apples to oranges

That said, my preference is always under center triple option

Monken will figure it out. My guess is we’ll see more of a mixture but what do I know. I heard change coming on off staff but, again, who knows

[WrekDivr]

So….I guess we want a DII offense now? Lotsa comets about where our OC came from on this board previously.

I am REALLY curious to see what we field next year.

[PrideandDream]

They just won the D-II National Championship.

So?

They completed all of 26 passes ALL SEASON, while piling up 6,161 yards (NCAA record) running the triple option. Oh yeah, with the same cut block restrictions.

Jus' sayin'...


PS
Merry Christmas

FCS talent beat FCS talent running option with new rules

You wanna take FCS talent and beat FBS talent running option with new rules

Apples to oranges

That said, my preference is always under center triple option

Monken will figure it out. My guess is we’ll see more of a mixture but what do I know. I heard change coming on off staff but, again, who knows

No we took FCS talent and put it at a disadvantage not being under center and trying to throw about twice as often. And as a result we lost to UMASS and ULM. Two of the worst FBS teams in the Nation.

[kfan12]

No we took FCS talent and put it at a disadvantage not being under center and trying to throw about twice as often. And as a result we lost to UMASS and ULM. Two of the worst FBS teams in the Nation.

I just hope Coach Monken has the right folks from this message board in his phone contacts so he can get the OK for each formation next year, probably best to do it on a play-by-play basis. Can they keep someone on video conference so the formations and play can be decided from someone's couch? Would probably only lose 3-5 seconds to the video delay, so the team would have to be a bit more crisp in their movements between plays to make it work. It might/might not help the team, but at least we'd find out what kind of offensive genius they've been missing out on. Clearly we want to decide what is an acceptable form of offense for Army to run. Once we get that done, maybe they can figure out how we can run practice through video chat or something.

Still, I'm a bit surprised by this analysis. All those teams that beat UMASS and ULM were running an under center triple option? Oh well, certainly couldn't have had anything to do with the 8 turnovers Army committed in those two games, I mean only half of them were fumbles. Had to have been the formation Army was running that limited offensive production.

[ArmorDude]

No we took FCS talent and put it at a disadvantage not being under center and trying to throw about twice as often. And as a result we lost to UMASS and ULM. Two of the worst FBS teams in the Nation.

I just hope Coach Monken has the right folks from this message board in his phone contacts so he can get the OK for each formation next year, probably best to do it on a play-by-play basis. Can they keep someone on video conference so the formations and play can be decided from someone's couch? Would probably only lose 3-5 seconds to the video delay, so the team would have to be a bit more crisp in their movements between plays to make it work. It might/might not help the team, but at least we'd find out what kind of offensive genius they've been missing out on. Clearly we want to decide what is an acceptable form of offense for Army to run. Once we get that done, maybe they can figure out how we can run practice through video chat or something.

Actually not bad of an idea based on what we all saw this year.

[PrideandDream]

No we took FCS talent and put it at a disadvantage not being under center and trying to throw about twice as often. And as a result we lost to UMASS and ULM. Two of the worst FBS teams in the Nation.

I just hope Coach Monken has the right folks from this message board in his phone contacts so he can get the OK for each formation next year, probably best to do it on a play-by-play basis. Can they keep someone on video conference so the formations and play can be decided from someone's couch? Would probably only lose 3-5 seconds to the video delay, so the team would have to be a bit more crisp in their movements between plays to make it work. It might/might not help the team, but at least we'd find out what kind of offensive genius they've been missing out on. Clearly we want to decide what is an acceptable form of offense for Army to run. Once we get that done, maybe they can figure out how we can run practice through video chat or something.

Still, I'm a bit surprised by this analysis. All those teams that beat UMASS and ULM were running an under center triple option? Oh well, certainly couldn't have had anything to do with the 8 turnovers Army committed in those two games, I mean only half of them were fumbles. Had to have been the formation Army was running that limited offensive production.

Ok how about this. Don't take it from me take it from the man himself. Monken knows this experiment didn't turn out. He is going to make some changes in how we run it. Look I'm not against any specific scheme but it has to work and show improvement. And I could even back this scheme if I thought we were somehow improving week over week. Fact is we put up 1 TD vs Navy. One. Special Teams and Defense won the Navy game. And Special Teams and Defense were the only things going in the ULM game week 1. We didn't get any better in this system and it consistently under produced in most every meaningful metric though out the year vs what we did last year and most importantly in points.

I'll post the link to Monken's post Navy comments below. You can hear what he says. But when you listen ask yourself this, "Did Monken go under center vs Coastal to prove a theory that preparation for the option is a big big deal?" Then listen to what he says at 16:15 when he says "What I found but what I wanted to deny....when people play us it was like playing a different sport". That was the advantage we had and we threw it out the window totally. Coastal is the proof of that. As Monken says when you put the "5 technique", which if you don't know is the "Hand Off Key" in the triple (first man head up or outside the tackle), in conflict it creates a real advantage. And what that allows us to do is run the fullback fast and down your throat. But as I've point out in the past, the guards and center have to get a push and win the LOS as well. And our old offense was failing between the guards. Not on the perimeter with cut blocks.

Say what you want. We went 6-6 with two FCS wins. We didn't qualify for a bowl. 86 other teams did. We lost to two horrible teams in ULM and UMASS. Were handed a gift by AFA. Beat Navy with Special Teams and Defense. Beat Coastal like a drum with the triple. We had 3 full games without an offensive touchdown. We scored 100 points less than last season and any season since 2-10 2015 in Monken's second season. Threw the ball twice as often and just as inconsistently. By any measure this was not an improvement. I know it. Monken knows it. And not because he needs me or any other fan or coach to tell him this.

We will see how this evolves and he will own it.

Watch the Navy post game if you haven't. Don't take it from me take it from Monken.

Jeff Monken Navy Post Game Press Conference

PD

[ARMORMAN]

Easily the most compelling argument in this entire discussion, and all without the weakest and cheapest form of debate - sarcasm. End of mission.

[wpgrad]

No we took FCS talent and put it at a disadvantage not being under center and trying to throw about twice as often. And as a result we lost to UMASS and ULM. Two of the worst FBS teams in the Nation.

I just hope Coach Monken has the right folks from this message board in his phone contacts so he can get the OK for each formation next year, probably best to do it on a play-by-play basis. Can they keep someone on video conference so the formations and play can be decided from someone's couch? Would probably only lose 3-5 seconds to the video delay, so the team would have to be a bit more crisp in their movements between plays to make it work. It might/might not help the team, but at least we'd find out what kind of offensive genius they've been missing out on. Clearly we want to decide what is an acceptable form of offense for Army to run. Once we get that done, maybe they can figure out how we can run practice through video chat or something.

Still, I'm a bit surprised by this analysis. All those teams that beat UMASS and ULM were running an under center triple option? Oh well, certainly couldn't have had anything to do with the 8 turnovers Army committed in those two games, I mean only half of them were fumbles. Had to have been the formation Army was running that limited offensive production.

Ok how about this. Don't take it from me take it from the man himself. Monken knows this experiment didn't turn out. He is going to make some changes in how we run it. Look I'm not against any specific scheme but it has to work and show improvement. And I could even back this scheme if I thought we were somehow improving week over week. Fact is we put up 1 TD vs Navy. One. Special Teams and Defense won the Navy game. And Special Teams and Defense were the only things going in the ULM game week 1. We didn't get any better in this system and it consistently under produced in most every meaningful metric though out the year vs what we did last year and most importantly in points.

I'll post the link to Monken's post Navy comments below. You can hear what he says. But when you listen ask yourself this, "Did Monken go under center vs Coastal to prove a theory that preparation for the option is a big big deal?" Then listen to what he says at 16:15 when he says "What I found but what I wanted to deny....when people play us it was like playing a different sport". That was the advantage we had and we threw it out the window totally. Coastal is the proof of that. As Monken says when you put the "5 technique", which if you don't know is the "Hand Off Key" in the triple (first man head up or outside the tackle), in conflict it creates a real advantage. And what that allows us to do is run the fullback fast and down your throat. But as I've point out in the past, the guards and center have to get a push and win the LOS as well. And our old offense was failing between the guards. Not on the perimeter with cut blocks.

Say what you want. We went 6-6 with two FCS wins. We didn't qualify for a bowl. 86 other teams did. We lost to two horrible teams in ULM and UMASS. Were handed a gift by AFA. Beat Navy with Special Teams and Defense. Beat Coastal like a drum with the triple. We had 3 full games without an offensive touchdown. We scored 100 points less than last season and any season since 2-10 2015 in Monken's second season. Threw the ball twice as often and just as inconsistently. By any measure this was not an improvement. I know it. Monken knows it. And not because he needs me or any other fan or coach to tell him this.

We will see how this evolves and he will own it.

Watch the Navy post game if you haven't. Don't take it from me take it from Monken.

Jeff Monken Navy Post Game Press Conference

PD

Beating a team by 3 touchdowns, holding them to 3 points, causing SIX turnovers, and outrushing them by 60 yards (even though your video expert said that AF line coaching as awesome and our line coaching sucks) IS NOT A GIFT. It is called beating a team.

We lost to ULM and UMASS. We also beat a ranked team for the first time in 50 years. We beat 9-4 UTSA. We beat 8-5 Coastal. etc. etc

Monken also, in that same presser, said that he realized that you can't run under center versus AF and Navy, as evidenced by our performance against both in recent year. He then noted that the new offense worked with regard to being able to rush versus both teams.

You just cherry pick the bad parts so that it fits your story and ignore all of the good aspects. And then Armorman tells you how awesome you are.