Some Perspective

[gabn92]

I attended the game...has taken a few days for me to even want to come back and read anything on this board after that disappointment. However, those couple of days were also helpful with gaining a little perspective. I hope much of what I'm reading is "heat of the moment" ranting, because it's hard to fathom an Army fan would rationally think many of the things being mentioned here.

Some thoughts:

1) Yes, that game sucked. I hate losing to Navy as much as the next grad or Army fan.
2) But...upsets happen. Especially in rivalry games. As Coach Sutton famously said once "the most desperate team wins". That was Navy this year.
3) Weird stuff happens in rivalry games. Look at rivalry week this year: Michigan beating Ohio State, or Georgia Tech taking Georgia to 8 OT's to remind yourselves even the most elite teams in the country, with all the money and all the best athletes aren't immune to laying an egg vs. an inferior rival.
4) This Army team has matched its highest win total ever with 11 and still has a chance to set the record with 12 wins this season.
5) There's 1 season goal they didn't accomplish: the #1 goal, to beat Navy. But they still accomplished a lot: beat AF; won the AAC; undefeated at home; earned a bowl invite. If I had been offered the chance preseason to choose an 11-win season where we beat AF, won the conference championship, enjoyed national rankings and national attention like we haven't seen since 1958 and got a bowl invite...I think I would have taken that over the alternative offer of beating Navy.
6) Monken is the best coach by a mile Army has had since the 1950's. He gets West Point and the Army--he's a great leader and ambassador for this program. He has built a winning culture of toughness and brotherhood. He resurrected this program from the depths of ineptitude. Those of you wishing he would leave need to maybe take stock of all that he has done and can continue to do for this program.
7) Yes, it is clear from Monken's actions and words that he would love the chance to coach at bigger school that would give him a greater opportunity to compete for a national championship. He's given us 11 years, and has definitely earned his chance should one be offered him. Football is a business and this is his professional career...a shot to test himself at a higher level and to be compensated accordingly is understandable. Just because he'd like a chance to coach at a bigger school doesn't mean he isn't still good for Army.
8) The coaching carousel is football. Yes, I'm sure there were impacts due to Monken's interviews and Drinkall's hire...but that's life in college football. Just like injuries...they happen...you have to overcome and play through it all. No excuses.
9) It's clear the team came out flat, tired, unprepared compared to Navy. The AAC championship game and the run up to Navy with our 4 toughest opponents clearly took its toll. Navy was focused, rested and fresh...Army simply was not. When all is said and done, this single factor probably had the biggest impact on the game of everything. How much of that is a coaching failure, a team leadership failure, an immaturity factor from the players themselves, or simply a physiological fact is debatable. I think it safe to say all of those things contributed to Army's inability to maintain the same level of intensity and focus they displayed against Tulane the next week against Navy.
10) We did the same thing to Navy in 2016 when we broke the streak. It's a factor that I hope the leadership at both Army and Navy take into consideration when the contract comes due for renewal of the A-N game. We now have 2 data points that show that playing in the conference championship the week before the A-N game puts your team at a distinct disadvantage. They need to move the A-N game to Thanksgiving weekend during "rivalry week" and adjust to the new landscape as members of the AAC.
11) Finally...those of you predicting gloom and doom for next season, please stop. A bad game against Navy doesn't mean the team has gone off the rails and all hope is lost for the future. Please get a grip. Let's see how the offseason goes with this coaching staff and the portal (if any more follow Udoh). Let's remember this coaching staff has proven capable of developing players and creating a "next man up" culture.

[apgarme]

It is obvious that Coach Monken wants to leave West Point. Right now, the continued vacillation is likely hurting recruting.

Yes, Coach Monken has been a fantastic coach for Army, but when he entertained job offers during a week he should have focused on preparing our team for the greatest rivalry in college football, he clearly signaled that he was done.

Coach Monken has been great for West Point; however, West Point has been great for Coach Monken. I think that he owed his players a little more attention than he might have given them last week.

[ArmorDude]

It is obvious that Coach Monken wants to leave West Point. Right now, the continued vacillation is likely hurting recruting.

Yes, Coach Monken has been a fantastic coach for Army, but when he entertained job offers during a week he should have focused on preparing our team for the greatest rivalry in college football, he clearly signaled that he was done.

Coach Monken has been great for West Point; however, West Point has been great for Coach Monken. I think that he owed his players a little more attention than he might have given them last week.

Does anyone ACTUALLY know what Jeff was doing last week? Many are assuming that he missed practices or didn't give the game all of the attention it deserved. Unless anyone actually knows, this kind of speculation isn't helpful.

I can't fault the guy for looking at jobs that could 2x his salary ... but I can't see him losing focus on the game because of it. We've been to this rodeo with him before, and I don't recall this happening before.

Despite that, the game planning and coaching left a lot to be desired. But that may have been a result of overconfidence and not distraction.

[Dong Fong '09]

I attended the game...has taken a few days for me to even want to come back and read anything on this board after that disappointment. However, those couple of days were also helpful with gaining a little perspective. I hope much of what I'm reading is "heat of the moment" ranting, because it's hard to fathom an Army fan would rationally think many of the things being mentioned here.

Some thoughts:

1) Yes, that game sucked. I hate losing to Navy as much as the next grad or Army fan.
2) But...upsets happen. Especially in rivalry games. As Coach Sutton famously said once "the most desperate team wins". That was Navy this year.
3) Weird stuff happens in rivalry games. Look at rivalry week this year: Michigan beating Ohio State, or Georgia Tech taking Georgia to 8 OT's to remind yourselves even the most elite teams in the country, with all the money and all the best athletes aren't immune to laying an egg vs. an inferior rival.
4) This Army team has matched its highest win total ever with 11 and still has a chance to set the record with 12 wins this season.
5) There's 1 season goal they didn't accomplish: the #1 goal, to beat Navy. But they still accomplished a lot: beat AF; won the AAC; undefeated at home; earned a bowl invite. If I had been offered the chance preseason to choose an 11-win season where we beat AF, won the conference championship, enjoyed national rankings and national attention like we haven't seen since 1958 and got a bowl invite...I think I would have taken that over the alternative offer of beating Navy.
6) Monken is the best coach by a mile Army has had since the 1950's. He gets West Point and the Army--he's a great leader and ambassador for this program. He has built a winning culture of toughness and brotherhood. He resurrected this program from the depths of ineptitude. Those of you wishing he would leave need to maybe take stock of all that he has done and can continue to do for this program.
7) Yes, it is clear from Monken's actions and words that he would love the chance to coach at bigger school that would give him a greater opportunity to compete for a national championship. He's given us 11 years, and has definitely earned his chance should one be offered him. Football is a business and this is his professional career...a shot to test himself at a higher level and to be compensated accordingly is understandable. Just because he'd like a chance to coach at a bigger school doesn't mean he isn't still good for Army.
8) The coaching carousel is football. Yes, I'm sure there were impacts due to Monken's interviews and Drinkall's hire...but that's life in college football. Just like injuries...they happen...you have to overcome and play through it all. No excuses.
9) It's clear the team came out flat, tired, unprepared compared to Navy. The AAC championship game and the run up to Navy with our 4 toughest opponents clearly took its toll. Navy was focused, rested and fresh...Army simply was not. When all is said and done, this single factor probably had the biggest impact on the game of everything. How much of that is a coaching failure, a team leadership failure, an immaturity factor from the players themselves, or simply a physiological fact is debatable. I think it safe to say all of those things contributed to Army's inability to maintain the same level of intensity and focus they displayed against Tulane the next week against Navy.
10) We did the same thing to Navy in 2016 when we broke the streak. It's a factor that I hope the leadership at both Army and Navy take into consideration when the contract comes due for renewal of the A-N game. We now have 2 data points that show that playing in the conference championship the week before the A-N game puts your team at a distinct disadvantage. They need to move the A-N game to Thanksgiving weekend during "rivalry week" and adjust to the new landscape as members of the AAC.
11) Finally...those of you predicting gloom and doom for next season, please stop. A bad game against Navy doesn't mean the team has gone off the rails and all hope is lost for the future. Please get a grip. Let's see how the offseason goes with this coaching staff and the portal (if any more follow Udoh). Let's remember this coaching staff has proven capable of developing players and creating a "next man up" culture.

To your point about weird stuff happening in rivalry games. 2021 and this year are both good examples of Navy winning a game they were supposed to lose.

I can’t recall a time where we were supposed to lose where we won. Possibly 2016, but the big fat asterisk with that one was navy’s qb getting hurt in the championship game the week prior.

[RABBLE]

None of us really do not know what happened the week before the A/N game. Let it be. it is over.
I am deeply disappointed over our loss to Navy as we all are.
Now with the loss of Udoh and the possibility of our coach leaving and other staff members departing, it leaves me wondering what the program holds for the intermediate future. I have no idea.
It seems we go thru this mess every single year at the end of the season.

[gabn92]

Dong Fong...that's a good point and I think there's something there. When you look at the history of the A-N series, it seems there are more times that Navy has pulled the upset than Army. There are also more times that Navy has absolutely blown Army out of the game. When Army wins, it tends to be close games. Navy wins close games...and wins big. When was the last time Army won in a blowout?

I'm wondering if West Point has created something of a brittle mindset/culture when it comes to Navy because it is 100% all about beating Navy all the time. It's all or nothing. Does that make Army play tighter in those games because we've over-focused and over-emphasized it?

I think it should always be goal #1...but if the team is defining a successful season solely on achieving that goal, then perhaps we are focusing too much on it.

[Oliphant]

Dong Fong...that's a good point and I think there's something there. When you look at the history of the A-N series, it seems there are more times that Navy has pulled the upset than Army. There are also more times that Navy has absolutely blown Army out of the game. When Army wins, it tends to be close games. Navy wins close games...and wins big. When was the last time Army won in a blowout?

I'm wondering if West Point has created something of a brittle mindset/culture when it comes to Navy because it is 100% all about beating Navy all the time. It's all or nothing. Does that make Army play tighter in those games because we've over-focused and over-emphasized it?

I think it should always be goal #1...but if the team is defining a successful season solely on achieving that goal, then perhaps we are focusing too much on it.

1986: 27-7

1990 (30-20) was the last double-digit win over the Squids. Since then, Navy has won by double-digits 15 times, including twice in the last six meetings.

[ArmyRoadFan7]

I attended the game...has taken a few days for me to even want to come back and read anything on this board after that disappointment. However, those couple of days were also helpful with gaining a little perspective. I hope much of what I'm reading is "heat of the moment" ranting, because it's hard to fathom an Army fan would rationally think many of the things being mentioned here.

Some thoughts:

1) Yes, that game sucked. I hate losing to Navy as much as the next grad or Army fan.
2) But...upsets happen. Especially in rivalry games. As Coach Sutton famously said once "the most desperate team wins". That was Navy this year.
3) Weird stuff happens in rivalry games. Look at rivalry week this year: Michigan beating Ohio State, or Georgia Tech taking Georgia to 8 OT's to remind yourselves even the most elite teams in the country, with all the money and all the best athletes aren't immune to laying an egg vs. an inferior rival.
4) This Army team has matched its highest win total ever with 11 and still has a chance to set the record with 12 wins this season.
5) There's 1 season goal they didn't accomplish: the #1 goal, to beat Navy. But they still accomplished a lot: beat AF; won the AAC; undefeated at home; earned a bowl invite. If I had been offered the chance preseason to choose an 11-win season where we beat AF, won the conference championship, enjoyed national rankings and national attention like we haven't seen since 1958 and got a bowl invite...I think I would have taken that over the alternative offer of beating Navy.
6) Monken is the best coach by a mile Army has had since the 1950's. He gets West Point and the Army--he's a great leader and ambassador for this program. He has built a winning culture of toughness and brotherhood. He resurrected this program from the depths of ineptitude. Those of you wishing he would leave need to maybe take stock of all that he has done and can continue to do for this program.
7) Yes, it is clear from Monken's actions and words that he would love the chance to coach at bigger school that would give him a greater opportunity to compete for a national championship. He's given us 11 years, and has definitely earned his chance should one be offered him. Football is a business and this is his professional career...a shot to test himself at a higher level and to be compensated accordingly is understandable. Just because he'd like a chance to coach at a bigger school doesn't mean he isn't still good for Army.
8) The coaching carousel is football. Yes, I'm sure there were impacts due to Monken's interviews and Drinkall's hire...but that's life in college football. Just like injuries...they happen...you have to overcome and play through it all. No excuses.
9) It's clear the team came out flat, tired, unprepared compared to Navy. The AAC championship game and the run up to Navy with our 4 toughest opponents clearly took its toll. Navy was focused, rested and fresh...Army simply was not. When all is said and done, this single factor probably had the biggest impact on the game of everything. How much of that is a coaching failure, a team leadership failure, an immaturity factor from the players themselves, or simply a physiological fact is debatable. I think it safe to say all of those things contributed to Army's inability to maintain the same level of intensity and focus they displayed against Tulane the next week against Navy.
10) We did the same thing to Navy in 2016 when we broke the streak. It's a factor that I hope the leadership at both Army and Navy take into consideration when the contract comes due for renewal of the A-N game. We now have 2 data points that show that playing in the conference championship the week before the A-N game puts your team at a distinct disadvantage. They need to move the A-N game to Thanksgiving weekend during "rivalry week" and adjust to the new landscape as members of the AAC.
11) Finally...those of you predicting gloom and doom for next season, please stop. A bad game against Navy doesn't mean the team has gone off the rails and all hope is lost for the future. Please get a grip. Let's see how the offseason goes with this coaching staff and the portal (if any more follow Udoh). Let's remember this coaching staff has proven capable of developing players and creating a "next man up" culture.

To your point about weird stuff happening in rivalry games. 2021 and this year are both good examples of Navy winning a game they were supposed to lose.

I can’t recall a time where we were supposed to lose where we won. Possibly 2016, but the big fat asterisk with that one was navy’s qb getting hurt in the championship game the week prior.

In 2022 Army was pretty awful and beat Navy as a 3-4 point underdog.

[Dong Fong '09]

I attended the game...has taken a few days for me to even want to come back and read anything on this board after that disappointment. However, those couple of days were also helpful with gaining a little perspective. I hope much of what I'm reading is "heat of the moment" ranting, because it's hard to fathom an Army fan would rationally think many of the things being mentioned here.

Some thoughts:

1) Yes, that game sucked. I hate losing to Navy as much as the next grad or Army fan.
2) But...upsets happen. Especially in rivalry games. As Coach Sutton famously said once "the most desperate team wins". That was Navy this year.
3) Weird stuff happens in rivalry games. Look at rivalry week this year: Michigan beating Ohio State, or Georgia Tech taking Georgia to 8 OT's to remind yourselves even the most elite teams in the country, with all the money and all the best athletes aren't immune to laying an egg vs. an inferior rival.
4) This Army team has matched its highest win total ever with 11 and still has a chance to set the record with 12 wins this season.
5) There's 1 season goal they didn't accomplish: the #1 goal, to beat Navy. But they still accomplished a lot: beat AF; won the AAC; undefeated at home; earned a bowl invite. If I had been offered the chance preseason to choose an 11-win season where we beat AF, won the conference championship, enjoyed national rankings and national attention like we haven't seen since 1958 and got a bowl invite...I think I would have taken that over the alternative offer of beating Navy.
6) Monken is the best coach by a mile Army has had since the 1950's. He gets West Point and the Army--he's a great leader and ambassador for this program. He has built a winning culture of toughness and brotherhood. He resurrected this program from the depths of ineptitude. Those of you wishing he would leave need to maybe take stock of all that he has done and can continue to do for this program.
7) Yes, it is clear from Monken's actions and words that he would love the chance to coach at bigger school that would give him a greater opportunity to compete for a national championship. He's given us 11 years, and has definitely earned his chance should one be offered him. Football is a business and this is his professional career...a shot to test himself at a higher level and to be compensated accordingly is understandable. Just because he'd like a chance to coach at a bigger school doesn't mean he isn't still good for Army.
8) The coaching carousel is football. Yes, I'm sure there were impacts due to Monken's interviews and Drinkall's hire...but that's life in college football. Just like injuries...they happen...you have to overcome and play through it all. No excuses.
9) It's clear the team came out flat, tired, unprepared compared to Navy. The AAC championship game and the run up to Navy with our 4 toughest opponents clearly took its toll. Navy was focused, rested and fresh...Army simply was not. When all is said and done, this single factor probably had the biggest impact on the game of everything. How much of that is a coaching failure, a team leadership failure, an immaturity factor from the players themselves, or simply a physiological fact is debatable. I think it safe to say all of those things contributed to Army's inability to maintain the same level of intensity and focus they displayed against Tulane the next week against Navy.
10) We did the same thing to Navy in 2016 when we broke the streak. It's a factor that I hope the leadership at both Army and Navy take into consideration when the contract comes due for renewal of the A-N game. We now have 2 data points that show that playing in the conference championship the week before the A-N game puts your team at a distinct disadvantage. They need to move the A-N game to Thanksgiving weekend during "rivalry week" and adjust to the new landscape as members of the AAC.
11) Finally...those of you predicting gloom and doom for next season, please stop. A bad game against Navy doesn't mean the team has gone off the rails and all hope is lost for the future. Please get a grip. Let's see how the offseason goes with this coaching staff and the portal (if any more follow Udoh). Let's remember this coaching staff has proven capable of developing players and creating a "next man up" culture.

To your point about weird stuff happening in rivalry games. 2021 and this year are both good examples of Navy winning a game they were supposed to lose.

I can’t recall a time where we were supposed to lose where we won. Possibly 2016, but the big fat asterisk with that one was navy’s qb getting hurt in the championship game the week prior.

In 2022 Army was pretty awful and beat Navy as a 3-4 point underdog.

Holy cow I didn’t realize that. That was a terrible navy team too.

[USMA94]

2020 was double digits and a shutout. 15-0